On this episode of the Less Stressed Life, we’re switching things up and having a little fun with personal style. I’m talking with style coach Gillian Jakob Kieser about why figuring out what actually feels like you goes way beyond knowing your colors, following trends, or buying the pieces someone says everyone needs in their closet.

Gillian walks me through the six style archetypes and we get into my own mix of natural, dramatic, and gamine. We also talk about why your style can change through different seasons of life, what your closet can teach you about yourself, and how understanding what you actually like can make getting dressed and shopping a whole lot easier (and more fun).

FREEBIE: Gillian's Style Archetype Quiz - https://www.gillianjakobkieser.com/quiz

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

👗 Why personal style is about more than fashion
🎨 Why knowing your colors isn’t enough
✨ The six style archetypes and what they mean
🧩 Finding your unique blend of archetypes
🔎 What your closet can teach you
🛍️ Shopping with less guesswork
👚 Building a wardrobe for your actual life
💫 Making getting dressed easier and more fun

ABOUT GUEST:
Gillian Jakob Kieser (KEESER) is a style coach here to serve the women who have felt left behind by traditional style advice. She goes beyond 'fashion' and doesn't believe there are any 6 pieces everyone must own. She shows you celebrate your true self, quiet the clothing noise, and teaches you how to match your outsides to your insides. Using concrete tools and frameworks, Gillian makes style understandable and enjoyable for EVERYONE, whether you’re “good at fashion” or not.

WHERE TO FIND GUEST:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gillianjakobkieser

SPONSOR:
Thank you to Jigsaw Health for being such a great sponsor. 😎 Get back into the swing of things with 🧴 MagRelief Lotion for stress and sleep, 🧠 Brain Boost Mag L-Threonate for focus, and 🍓🫐 Berry-Licious Electrolyte Supreme for daily hydration.

🥳🎉 September special: From September 1–30, use code LESSSTRESSED15 for 15% off any order! Plus, get a FREE stainless steel water bottle 💦 when you start a new Electrolyte Supreme subscription.

✨ Any other time, use code LESSSTRESSED10 for 10% off any order.

NUTRITION PHILOSOPHY OF LESS STRESSED LIFE:
🍽️ Over restriction is dead
🥑 Whole food is soul food and fed is best
🔄 Sustainable, synergistic nutrition is in (the opposite of whack-a-mole supplementation & supplement graveyards)
🤝 You don’t have to figure it out alone
❤️ Do your best and leave the rest

WHERE TO FIND CHRISTA:
Website: https://www.christabiegler.com/
Instagram: @anti.inflammatory.nutritionist
Podcast Instagram: @lessstressedlife
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lessstressedlife
Quick Links: https://www.christabiegler.com/links
Cortisol Shop: https://christabiegler.com/cortisol-shop

❓Questions for Christa? Submit them here: https://www.christabiegler.com/questions

TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Gillian Jakob Kieser: I had another client who told me, before she took the class, she was saying getting dressed in the morning was a chore preferable only to changing kitty litter. I was like, "Heard. 

[00:00:09] Christa Biegler, RD: I'm your host, Christa Biegler, and I'm going to guess we have at least one thing in common, that we're both in pursuit of a less stressed life. On this show, I'll be interviewing experts and sharing clinical pearls from my years of practice to support high-performing, health-savvy women in pursuit of abundance and a less stressed life.

[00:00:39] Christa Biegler, RD: One of my beliefs is that we always have options for getting the results we want, so let's see what's out there together.

[00:01:00] Christa Biegler, RD: Today on The Less Stress Life, I am joined by Gillian Jakob Keiser, who is a style coach to s- that serves women who have felt left behind by traditional style advice. She goes beyond fashion and doesn't believe there are any six pieces that every room, everyone must own. She shows you how to celebrate your truest self, quiet the clothing noise, and teach you how to match your outside to your insides.

[00:01:23] Christa Biegler, RD: Using concrete tools and frameworks, Gillian makes style understandable and enjoyable for everyone, whether you're good at fashion or not. Welcome to the show, Gillian. 

[00:01:31] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Thanks, Christa. I'm so happy to be here with you. 

[00:01:34] Christa Biegler, RD: I think it's fun to share how we get here sometimes, because my listeners might say, "Oh, this is interesting.

[00:01:42] Christa Biegler, RD: Maybe I skipped this one. Maybe this is the episode I wanted to listen to," et cetera. For me, I was at a conference in April, and I was complimenting someone I was hanging out with on her wardrobe. We were at the conference several days, and she said, "Oh, you have to work with Gillian." I had already seen Gillian out of the corner of my eye, and was, like, enjoying her own style.

[00:02:05] Christa Biegler, RD: And so I did, and I would say the rest is history. But for me, this journey started earlier, because I tend to consider myself a brightly colored person, and I also like to be able to pack in a jiffy every other week or so, yeah, if I'm going somewhere. And I we're all motivated by certain things, so we'll hear your motivations and stories, 'cause we all have different ones, 'cause we're all getting dressed every day, so we don't actually realize how this topic does really impact our life quite a lot, whether we think it does or not.

[00:02:36] Christa Biegler, RD: And so I did a color analysis a few years ago, because I understood that then that would mean that I could pack colorfully in the same bag. And that was, like, tremendous and monumental, and little did I know it was just the beginning of kind of exciting times. So we'll unpack this.

[00:02:56] Christa Biegler, RD: But Gillian, welcome, and tell us a little bit about your story. What, how did you get into this? This is not what you've always done, if I know, right? 

[00:03:04] Gillian Jakob Kieser: No, it's not. It's definitely been a circuitous journey to get me here. But I have always loved fashion. A lot of people I work with, that's not their story.

[00:03:11] Gillian Jakob Kieser: But for me personally always loved getting dressed, shopping, thrifting, all the stuff, putting together outfits. 

[00:03:21] Gillian Jakob Kieser: And then in my late 30s, a bunch of life events all happened at once where I got married, had a baby, moved from the city to the country, where I was used to going to the office every day, and now I'm working at home every day.

[00:03:30] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Postpartum hormones, postpartum body changes, also a pandemic thrown in there. Life was really upended all at once. And, through the postpartum period of, pumping and feeding and all, all this stuff, you're you're bored, you're shopping. I was trying to feel better about myself 'cause I was just in such a funk- hormonally speaking, and s- starting to just acquire stuff that I thought would make me feel put together and feel elegant. And I was living in this new place, and I was looking at the fashionable women around me, trying to subtly emulate them. And one day, I opened my closet, and it was, like, wall-to-wall beige.

[00:04:03] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Beige sweaters. And not inexpensive beige sweaters either very nice beige sweaters. And I had this moment, just this lightning moment, where you're like I think of myself as a colorful person, much like you, and I'm looking inside this closet going like, "Whose closet is this?"

[00:04:18] Gillian Jakob Kieser: 'Cause these outfits are nice, but they're, like, very quiet. And I was just like, "This isn't me. I'm not able to flex where I wanna go. This i- these aren't the tools that I need to do what I need to do in the world." And I was just like- ... "Wow, how did I get here?" And in that moment, I just realized, "Okay, fashion has always played a role in my life creatively and for my expression.

[00:04:40] Gillian Jakob Kieser: I need to find my way back, but I know that it's not gonna look the same way that it did when I was younger for all of those life reasons." You change, you get older- ... all these things. And I just, I thought there must be some universal principles of style, that I could rebuild my style from scratch without copying somebody or, picking a capsule wardrobe off Pinterest or whatever.

[00:05:01] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Like, how would you build this from the ground up? What are the... Are there rules, are there frameworks that anybody can use to build something like this? And I went down a research hole, like an absolute deep dive, and consumed everything I could get my hands on. Read books, took classes, did research online, worked with a professional stylist, and started assembling these things.

[00:05:20] Gillian Jakob Kieser: And the process gave me so much more than I expected, and I'm sure you can resonate with this, where I found that not only was I able to figure out what pants look good on me but also I was reclaiming parts of my identity and personal story and autobiography that I had left along the way over the years.

[00:05:39] Gillian Jakob Kieser: It was like going back through my whole history and picking up these breadcrumbs- ... of recognition, of oh, this was something I really liked in my 20s. Oh yeah, this has always been a, oh, since childhood this has spoken to me. And weaving them all together into an aesthetic as well as a system that I felt honored my body.

[00:05:57] Gillian Jakob Kieser: It made me feel like, I feel like it really quieted the body noise of oh, if only my hips or my shoulders weren't blah, blah, like this. When you have clothes that fit you physically, that stuff quiets right down. I'm like, oh yeah, this, the, my body's fine. The clothes fit on me, I can go. And I felt like I was seeing an aesthetic reflected in the mirror that I was like, "That's me.

[00:06:17] Gillian Jakob Kieser: That's who's always been in there. She's back." And that was so powerful and had a ripple effect through all the different , facets of my life that was, like, quite amazing. And I just honestly got addicted. I was like, can I learn more about this? Can we go further? Can I start teaching people? I want all my friends to know how to do this.

[00:06:37] Gillian Jakob Kieser: I want everyone I love to know how to do this. And that set me off on the trajectory that caused you and I to meet which was, in, in the, the business space, and then you came and worked with me, and that's, it's been such a fun adventure, and especially cool to see that this work has resonated with so many people.

[00:06:53] Gillian Jakob Kieser: There's so much style advice out there, and a lot of it is really unhelpful for a lot of people who don't see themselves reflected in those images and in those, tips. 

[00:07:03] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, 'cause we're all sort of this unique- combination of things which you don't realize. So I did the color analysis, and that was, like I said, okay, cool, opened a new level.

[00:07:15] Christa Biegler, RD: But then, so the problem is... Okay, so first of all, that got me out of that beige hobo era as well. Yay. I was like, "Oh, that's great." I can see where some of this is popping. But you can't just buy things in your color. Not everything that's in your color means it works for you. 

[00:07:32] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Yeah, this is, happens to a lot of people, where like they leave- Yeah

[00:07:34] Gillian Jakob Kieser: their color analysis, they're jazzed. They go to the store and buy 17 col- solid color T-shirts, and they're like- ... "I'm done." And then they wonder, like, why they still feel boring but now in color. Because yeah, as you're saying, like there's something else missing.

[00:07:47] Christa Biegler, RD: There's several little pieces missing. 

[00:07:50] Christa Biegler, RD: So at some point I did a style analysis, and it was online, and I didn't understand. We're gonna talk about the style archetypes a little bit more because there's so many things we could talk about here, but it, th- that was a new aha when we worked together that I had already been told, "Oh, this is your style."

[00:08:08] Christa Biegler, RD: And that was an interesting thing because I have always loved personality assessments, and it felt like a personality assessment for style. And it was like, oh, that's true, and that's true, and I understand those breadcrumbs. Oh, I, I value, like, being comfortable over all these things.

[00:08:22] Christa Biegler, RD: I was just giggling to myself. Our inside joke that we can share with the rest of the audience is that, you were probably dressing for the office, et cetera, and then you moved to the country, and I also had that. And so you lose part of yourself in all of these places and all of these transitions.

[00:08:38] Christa Biegler, RD: And for me, I needed stuff, I needed to be able to dress in a d- during the day that allowed me to throw a sheep off of my deck, right? And jump on a dirt bike. Yeah. But also still show up to work and not have to change my clothes three or four times or feel like I'm just wearing the same four T-shirts or something and always feel, never feel like I'm getting out of my athleisure wear that I wore to bed or something.

[00:09:01] Christa Biegler, RD: Like- 

[00:09:01] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Totally ... 

[00:09:02] Christa Biegler, RD: all of these things. So I was told I had this, these couple of style archetypes, but I never really... I'm a really kinesthetic person. I have to play with it, understand it, et cetera. And the way you taught this, it wasn't like a one time and it's done. It was a teach, talk about, experiment with.

[00:09:19] Christa Biegler, RD: And the funny thing was, something I had struggled with before was like- I couldn't really Pinterest this very well before. I couldn't really Google... You couldn't even Google these two archetypes together and really find anything you liked. And that's the interesting part, was that, oh, it's actually not some canned thing on the internet.

[00:09:38] Christa Biegler, RD: It's like a unique... It's which of these archetypes are strongest for you, second strongest, and maybe are a little bit of an accessorizing point? And then you understand why you bought the dress with the vegetables all over it, yes, it 

[00:09:50] Gillian Jakob Kieser: solves the mystery. 

[00:09:52] Christa Biegler, RD: Solves the mystery. So hopefully those, that, that kind of in- introduction gave some had some resonant points.

[00:09:58] Christa Biegler, RD: But will you go over some of these style archetypes? Because I think this solves for, partially solves for why we try to go buy what's on the J. Crew model, but that doesn't work for all of us. Or why it feels like, "That looked good on them. Why don't I buy it for me?" But it doesn't really translate the same.

[00:10:16] Christa Biegler, RD: Totally. I feel like this is part of that. 

[00:10:18] Gillian Jakob Kieser: I ha- I have a best friend growing up in high school who was, like, looked like a J. Crew model. And so we'd go shopping. We'd both try stuff on. She looked amazing in it, and I felt, I looked like a monster. I'm like, "Why does stuff look so ugly on me?" And it's, decades later that I ha- figured it out, and it's, it, style archetypes is the reason.

[00:10:36] Gillian Jakob Kieser: It's like, there was a mismatch between the archetypes that J. Crew designs for, and it's not a body type. It's like a story type. It's a character, profile. And if that d- is not coming through, the energy of who you are, it's gonna feel dissonant instead of consonant. I was gonna share, here's a metaphor that I like to use to explain the style archetypes that I hope helps your listeners, which is the reason that it's not Google-able or Pinterest-able, even when you have the combination, is because there's not one place that even your unique blend of archetypes lands you that's the same as everyone else.

[00:11:09] Gillian Jakob Kieser: We could share archetypes. It's almost if I gave you an orange, some mint leaves, and some vinegar. What would you make? You could make a salad dressing. You could make a cocktail. You could make a granita. You could, like any number of things. They'd have those elements, but it lands you somewhere totally different.

[00:11:24] Gillian Jakob Kieser: And so when we do work with archetypes with my clients- People can share the same blends, but they're gonna land them, interpret them totally differently, but they're gonna have the same some of the core energies and personality traits. But everyone has a different blend and takes it a different place, and that's why I think it's a little more complex to get started, 'cause it's not like a Google assessment where you're like- here's where I land, here's what I buy, I'm done. As you said, it's more of like a exploration, but it can be so personal and so impactful 'cause the place you land is really quite bespoke. 

[00:11:58] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. I think that I've arrived at a point in life where none of this is surprising, because anything worthwhile tends to be a skill that must be developed.

[00:12:09] Christa Biegler, RD: Totally. And so I developed... I worked to develop this skill more quickly within six weeks, which is not really too bad. I'm still working on it, of course. Yeah. It's really not too bad in the scheme of life. And because I work with the body, and so- ... similarly, people wanna come in, and we always want the fastest thing, and I want the fastest thing, too, but I am constantly- Yeah, what do I 

[00:12:28] Gillian Jakob Kieser: eat?

[00:12:29] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, it's very... But I'm constantly reminded that when you don't understand how the pieces work together, then you are always grasping for straws very often. Because it's like if you understand how this one related to this one, it's not really a grasping thing. It's more of a you understand it and you're empowered and you select and choose as you need to.

[00:12:46] Christa Biegler, RD: And it's very s- it's kinda funny, because you'll find overlap in all of these valuable things in life where we develop skills, 100% ... not surprised. Okay, can you go over, is there six style archetypes? Where do they come from? Who made them up? Can you go over them briefly and help us? Maybe you have some personas around them.

[00:13:05] Christa Biegler, RD: And then can you... Yeah, so can we talk through what they are? 

[00:13:08] Christa Biegler, RD: I do not know about you, but I feel the change of season is upon us. And for many people, it's back to school or back to work, or for me, it's back to focus. And I wanted to share a few tools that I'm using that might make this transition a little easier for you as well. Now, first of all, if you've got a kiddo that gets stressed or anxious about school or sports and, and/or you just don't like taking supplements by mouth, have you tried this Mag Relief lotion from Jigsaw?

[00:13:37] Christa Biegler, RD: A lot of topical magnesium sprays burn, but this lotion has zero smell, zero burn, and it contains organic oils and my favorite kind of topical magnesium, which is OptiMSM. You can just put some on. Usually, it's gonna be legs and feet, but you can put it wherever you want on your body. Put some on after exercise, before bed to help with sleep and stress.

[00:13:57] Christa Biegler, RD: Another type of magnesium that I am adding to my rotation is these Brain Boost from Jigsaw. It's mag threonate, which means that it's the type of magnesium that crosses your blood-brain barrier to help with focus. And in studies, beyond focus, it also helps with deeper sleep, which then helps improve daytime alertness and reduce grouchiness.

[00:14:19] Christa Biegler, RD: So if you have not tried the Brain Boost mag threonate from Jigsaw, it might be helpful for getting back into the swing of things. That's what I'm gonna go ahead and try. And then finally, I am still drinking this berry-licious Electrolyte Supreme with a splash of sparkling mineral water on repeat. It's kinda like one of those sparkly energy drinks, but better for you because it's a combo of a multivitamin, vitamin B, minerals, and electrolytes without a vitamin flavor at all.

[00:14:51] Christa Biegler, RD: So in September, Jigsaw is giving Less Stressed Life listeners a special increased discount of 15% off any order as many times as you want with the code LESSSTRESS15. That's for the entire month of September. You can take 15% off with the code LESSSTRESS15, and they're sending out a free stainless water bottle to anyone with a new electrolyte subscription.

[00:15:12] Christa Biegler, RD: So if you miss the 15% off code in September, no problem. You can always get 10% off any order anytime with LESSSTRESSED10 as the code. As always, thank you so much for supporting this podcast and using our codes at https://www.jigsawhealth.com/.

[00:15:31] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Absolutely. Absolutely. 

[00:15:32] Gillian Jakob Kieser: So these come from the beginning of the 20th century, I believe. A woman named Harriet McJimsey came up with these as part of a... There was like a, I wanna call it like a farm bill. There was money being put towards teaching women home ec and homemaking, dressmaking skills.

[00:15:48] Gillian Jakob Kieser: And so this was part of that curriculum. Interesting ... there's an incredible book called The Art of Dress The Lost Art of Dress. I can get you the, the details if you want to include in the show notes. But fascinating history of all of this work. But, Yeah, so she started coming up with these.

[00:16:02] Gillian Jakob Kieser: A bunch of people have built on her work and evolved them over time. They had a big resurgence in the the '50s and '60s, and a lot of the g- glamorous Hollywood archetypes. And then we keep evolving them to keep them relevant, to people now who are not looking for red carpet gowns necessarily, but are, like you're saying looking for sheep- sheep hucking, outfits for everyday life.

[00:16:25] Gillian Jakob Kieser: But yeah, so there are six core archetypes, and as I describe them, think of these less as aesthetics to aspire to and more of core energies. They... It really is more, in the way that I use it, it's more of a personality typing than necessarily a body typing or a set of clothes that someone should get if they're this archetype, and I'll explain more about that after.

[00:16:47] Gillian Jakob Kieser: But the six core archetypes I work with are the romantic, the natural, the classic, the gamine, the dramatic, and the ingénue. Those are in no particular order. And they all embody different aspects of femininity, and I think for me and a lot of my clients, that in and of itself is so healing, 'cause a lot of us who have felt like we didn't quite fit in the, the style media, fashion media of just "I'm not that kind of woman," or "When I try to be, it feels fake."

[00:17:16] Gillian Jakob Kieser: I could- ... I can wear a bodycon mini dress and heels, but honestly I feel like I'm in drag when I wear that. It's not the s- the type of femininity that I feel like is my lane. So learning about the archetypes really helped open up the idea of femininity, and where you find yourself somewhere that's a bit more n- like, natural and at home for whoever you are.

[00:17:34] Gillian Jakob Kieser: There's a place for everybody. So the romantic is that high femme, high glam energy that's very curvaceous, celebratory, luxurious fabrics, opulent, sensual The natural is like what you might think of as bohemian. This is like a woman who's very practical adventurous, requires comfort and movability in her clothes.

[00:17:57] Gillian Jakob Kieser: We see a lot of natural fibers here. That's, And that can look any number of different ways. Each of these, as I'm describing them- ... can look many different ways. But that's... It's an energy. It's like a it's like a YOLO, going for it. That's the natural. 

[00:18:09] Gillian Jakob Kieser: The natural can also be somewhat forgetful Yeah

[00:18:12] Gillian Jakob Kieser: which is fun. The classic is what you'd purely think of, like, when you think of a preppy archetype, but it also embodies responsibility, authority traditional approach of appropriateness. This person... Whereas the natural, above all, wants to be comfortable, the classic, above all wants to be appropriate- do what's expected, and show up the way that they're supposed to. They usually know what's going on and where everyone needs to be. The next one down the line is the gamine. This one is like you're a little bit more boyish, androgynous, but in a young way. This is a mischievous, almost like a Peter Pan archetype.

[00:18:47] Gillian Jakob Kieser: The gamine is very playful, has a knack for camp irony novelty. They like these retro styles. If you are inclined to wear knee socks ever for your life you probably have some gamine in you. So that's... It's like a very... It's a young energy. The ingenue is also a young energy, like a young at heart, but is a little bit more proper, a little bit more buttoned up, a little more charming, sweet can tend towards people-pleasing.

[00:19:14] Gillian Jakob Kieser: But overall much more delicate and innocent, whereas the, the gamine is probably trying to get away with something. And then the dramatic They're... Dramatic can show up so many different ways. Dramatics they can be very wise, they can be very reserved, they can be very bold. This is like sometimes when we see these edgy or architectural or even mystical kind of styles that's all embodied in the dramatic.

[00:19:40] Gillian Jakob Kieser: They are not afraid to get attention. They're not afraid to for you to be off-put by something they do or say. They're totally fine with that. That's the dramatic, whereas that would break the ingenue's heart. And then we've got one more, I think. Didn't I... Or did I do all of them? I only... 

[00:19:56] Christa Biegler, RD: I got romantic, natural, classic, gamine, dramatic, ingenue.

[00:19:58] Christa Biegler, RD: There's just six, so I think we did all of them. We 

[00:19:59] Gillian Jakob Kieser: did them all. I just did them in a different order. 

[00:20:01] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. So I'm gonna talk about a few... we're gonna talk about all of them. But when you talk about ingenue, I was just thinking about what I remembered as well. I'm not an ingenue, but you were talking about gamine versus ingenue a little bit.

[00:20:13] Christa Biegler, RD: And I believe the thing with ingenue was, like, they like little details, right? They might have a little bow on something or a cutesy something or other. Whereas a gamine, their little their thing might be like a f- fruit, or something like that instead. And I... What... If I would look up just gamine, it would not re- I would be like, "Nope, that's not me," because it doesn't really feel it- Yeah

[00:20:35] Christa Biegler, RD: on the internet. Yeah. And that's the problem with Googling some of these- Yeah ... is that it's such a interesting combination. I was typed as a natural dramatic- Which is not necessarily incorrect, but there was a little bit of gamine there as well. And the dramatic to me was, like, one shoulder, or an angular neckline, right?

[00:20:52] Christa Biegler, RD: Whereas I think the classic is more of a normal probably neckline a little bit. 

[00:20:56] Gillian Jakob Kieser: The classic, yeah, the classic tailoring is gonna be, like, every, every place you expect the collar to be is where it is. There's no surprises. A dramatic would wear a shirt that has a collar on the bottom, or, like- a sleeve that's made of a leg. A classic would never be caught dead in something like that. They want everything the right size, the right proportion- ... that's standard. And I think to your point of, like, when you Google this stuff it's very easy to go- It's not gonna help, unfortunately

[00:21:17] Gillian Jakob Kieser: "That's not me." 

[00:21:18] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. 

[00:21:18] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Because it's very reductive, and I think what people- ... put on the internet in these blogs or whatever is here's the most iconic, most sort of cliche way that this could look, when actually, i- in the work that I do, we like to go a lot deeper into the personality. And for you I don't see you as the type of gamine that's gonna wear a sweater vest, and a little bow tie, and a skirt, and the Mary Janes.

[00:21:39] Gillian Jakob Kieser: But you do have this youthful, playful, spunky, almost rambunctious energy, where you're like, you like to have a little wink in your outfits. Even your profile photo where you have a banana as a mouth. This is something only a gamine would come up with. Like- no other archetypes would do that. They'd come up with something else. And so I think it's like part of the work is having the attuned eye to pick out these places where these things are already existing and coming to life, right? I didn't tell you to do... You did that years ago, before you met me.

[00:22:08] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Yeah. And it's finding the clues in that person's life- Yeah ... that sh- show the breadcrumbs to oh, this archetype's already present. Here's how we make sure that their clothing is also reflecting that energy, and it's not just showing up in one place in their life solo. 

[00:22:22] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. I will also say this at first felt a little, not necessarily confusing, but I was trying to digest it, and chew on it, and understand it.

[00:22:33] Christa Biegler, RD: And for me, how to do that is talking through, seeing examples, et cetera. And it happened over a few more weeks really, 'cause there's another girl that you work with, and they would point out "But you had this going on and this going on," and it helps you find yourself almost, right? And 

[00:22:49] Gillian Jakob Kieser: there's all these exercises- Yeah, by the end you feel like, oh, this is looking in a mirror.

[00:22:52] Gillian Jakob Kieser: This is- Yeah ... this is me. All the parts of me are showing up, versus I think for me and f- for probably a lot of your listeners their style is this external thing that they're putting on which is here's what this style looks like, here's what I ought to wear, or here's what someone at a store told me to wear, or my mother told me to wear, or what people like me dress like this.

[00:23:12] Gillian Jakob Kieser: And it feels like something that you're, like, always aspiring to versus something that inherently grows out of you. 

[00:23:18] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. I was thinking about oh yeah, I don't wear knee socks, and I just kinda Googled. I was like there's actually multiple times in my life where I dressed up with high socks.

[00:23:27] Christa Biegler, RD: Absolutely. But sometimes you just forget about things and how you did them, and I have a couple, I have some special socks for St. Patrick's Day that I would roll up. There you go. I had, I remember in college I had these plaid shorts with suspenders, and sometimes I'd wear ridiculous tall socks with them for some reason.

[00:23:44] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. It's like- 

[00:23:44] Gillian Jakob Kieser: A, a natural dramatic with no gamine does not have special socks and shorts for different holidays. That's a dead ringer. 

[00:23:51] Christa Biegler, RD: Totally. Yeah. And then when we talk about natural, that is, that does become prime because comfort is above all else. Yep. And so it's like, and so as you combine these, right?

[00:24:01] Christa Biegler, RD: If someone was a romantic dramatic, they would, I can it's kinda fun when you have people in your life that might be a little bit of things. It's just oh, yes, that's their thing coming out. No wonder. I can appreciate that, and that's not me. Like- And I should quit trying to be like that at any point

[00:24:18] Christa Biegler, RD: totally. 

[00:24:19] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Great example, you had our mutual friend Riann on your show- ... a few weeks ago. She's a perfect example of another dramatic gamine- ... who looks very different from you. 

[00:24:29] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. 

[00:24:29] Gillian Jakob Kieser: The dramatic is in the boldness and the geometry- ... but the gamine brings the playfulness. And it sh- it just shows you and she have totally different aesthetics.

[00:24:35] Gillian Jakob Kieser: But you're both working from the same set of ingredients, and it's a way to say "Okay, is this outfit me? Are we missing something?" Yeah. And when you hit on all two or three of your archetypes, you know that it's right. You're like, "Okay everyone's accounted for here, and I'm, like, right at home."

[00:24:51] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. I think, okay, and then I'll mention Riann, she's got these very bright glasses that I think are s- super round. She always wears this pink scarf, and it's part of her thing. And then all of her all of her- visual elements in her business are all these geom- geometric shapes, et cetera. And for a similar reason, I was probably attracted to...

[00:25:13] Christa Biegler, RD: So you are n- I don't know what all of your archetypes are, 'cause I don't overthink this. But- ... if I had to guess, you're part gamine, but I was attracted to those little gamine parts. Yeah. But I didn't really see how they worked for me, because there's parts of your outfit that I would not that are not the right fit for me.

[00:25:29] Christa Biegler, RD: Because remember- Totally ... I need natural above all else. And you are some- I 

[00:25:32] Gillian Jakob Kieser: don't have any natural ... and you're something else. Rianne doesn't have any natural. I'm a romantic gamine. Oh, that 

[00:25:36] Christa Biegler, RD: makes sense. So 

[00:25:36] Gillian Jakob Kieser: whereas Rianne will go bold, edgy, sharp in her- ... aesthetic, mine's gonna be soft and more like f- fluffy in a way.

[00:25:44] Gillian Jakob Kieser: I'll wear a tulle skirt or something that's got, like feathers or something that's fluffy mohair. Like a 1950s Marilyn Monroe mixed with those playful gamine qualities. And that's a great example of the natural gamine, the dramatic gamine, the romantic gamine, and how they all have that recognizable...

[00:26:01] Gillian Jakob Kieser: we all found each other. You- ... you're like, "Okay you're... We've got something going on here." But they show up so many different ways. Like- ... no one's wearing knee socks necessarily in that bunch. But there's shared language, shared visual language. 

[00:26:13] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. It's oh, you have something kinda fun and interesting. I may not buy- Yeah ... that same thing, but I'm attracted to it in my own way, right? 

[00:26:20] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Totally. I, we had other dramatic gamines in that I've worked with in my program who like... Another gamine thing would be, like, you have a necklace or something that's like, what, when you get up, it looks like a nice necklace, and when you get up close it has a curse word on it, and you're like, "Oh."

[00:26:33] Gillian Jakob Kieser: That's a, another great dramatic gamine move. This is a classic move. Yeah. 

[00:26:37] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. I think that it's not surprising that you have a lot of people like that in your program as well, because we are attracted to people that we think, "Oh, that's interesting style. Maybe I like that, so maybe I'll find something I like because I like whatever they're wearing, even though I like something different," right?

[00:26:54] Christa Biegler, RD: We tend to be attracted to people we can see ourselves in or can resonate with. 

[00:26:59] Christa Biegler, RD: Totally ... and I will talk about the natural thing as well. So comfort is above all. And at points in my life I did some bohemian and I did some comfort and movability, but you can also acci- for me, I'm like, I could accidentally also look like a bag, which is maybe not so figuring out like how things have to look.

[00:27:18] Christa Biegler, RD: And maybe what I like from that actual is comfort, fits well for whatever I believe fits well, and then textures. So like- Yeah ... I have been seeking out lots of crochet whatever that moves a little bit 'cause I'm like, "Oh, I like this texture and this lightness." And what's interesting is, I think I was sharing this with you recently, is that as you start to figure this out about yourself there's so many benefits, right?

[00:27:43] Christa Biegler, RD: Because there's another thing we did in your program about, I don't remember what it's called, but it's essentially figuring out how much you do different activities. Because, so often- ... you go to your closet and you think, "I have nothing to wear," and it's actually I have plenty to wear to a wedding on Saturday.

[00:27:57] Christa Biegler, RD: But I don't have anything to wear every day except like the same two things. 

[00:28:03] Gillian Jakob Kieser: What do I 

[00:28:03] Christa Biegler, RD: wear to the dentist? Or it doesn't pull it together. 

[00:28:04] Gillian Jakob Kieser: What am I wearing to do yard work? Yeah. But I'm ready to go to the gala if I'm called.

[00:28:08] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Exactly. And I like to shop for that. And so we worked through that thing as well.

[00:28:12] Christa Biegler, RD: And so anyway, there's so many places my brain wants to go in this conversation, but one, as I started, as this started to kick in and hit in the personal style, it of course overlapped into my home. And I already had good things going on in the home. I already had some natural pieces, and I knew I liked the textures.

[00:28:33] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. But I was missing some of these other pieces that I never really felt... I was doing too much classic instead of much... But I was always attracted to these they call it something different, but just like- mischievous, funky little whimsical things, right? Yeah. I always loved the whimsical things, but couldn't figure them out to put them together.

[00:28:51] Christa Biegler, RD: Yes. And now I understand, oh, yes, there is room for that, and it actually becomes a reflection of you in all s- types of ways. It's such a fascinating, it's such a fascinating- Yeah ... fun thing. 

[00:29:02] Gillian Jakob Kieser: You start to look around and see the places where you've been influenced of, like- ... here's what proper people do.

[00:29:07] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Like my home also was, like, very classic natural- ... 'cause that's what on every home design- ... blog, everything. And I'm in the process now of making small adjustments to feel like I'm bringing those reflections of myself more into my own space, because it just, it feels better when you're- when you see yourself around you and you feel at home. But I would say just as with clothes, there are certain styles that I feel like we see commonly and feel acceptable for a, the kind of woman like me, this is this is an appropriate way to dress. Like, where I live in California it's very bohemian, like natural, romantic, hippie.

[00:29:42] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Like maxi dress, cowgirl, like very... I love it. It looks beautiful on a lot of these women. It did not look beautiful on me. And so I had to find my own. But, like, when you think about even in design styles, 'cause this is what you brought up, like there's certain s- you can picture these archetypes and design styles, but some of them are very jarring and we don't expect...

[00:30:02] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Do you know what I mean? Like the, like a dramatic gabine is like a post-modern, like Pee-wee's Playhouse almost. Very sculptural, very futuristic materials, like Memphis design. It's super cool, but it's not for everybody and it's... I think a lot of this the clothing becomes the first hurdle 'cause it's closest to your center of making these changes and being like, "No, this is who I am.

[00:30:25] Gillian Jakob Kieser: This is who I've always been, and I'm finding the courage to show up that way." And the irony is once you get over that hump of showing up that way, everything feels easier- Oh it does ... on the other side, and you realize how hard you were working to pull off something that never was quite right.

[00:30:38] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. I have reached a point where it's oh, I actually have plenty of things to wear that I like, and I have a few more holes specific- Yeah ... to color and other things, but I can see them easier now, right? Yeah. And it does take some effort. It takes a bit to get there. 

[00:30:55] Christa Biegler, RD: And something that came up a lot, I feel in the program, and I think has come up for you multiple times overall, is people, I don't know how you would say it.

[00:31:05] Christa Biegler, RD: It's like an identity thing. People come into it, and then they realize it really, it's not so much to do with fashion, right? It's like this whole... And you've talked about it already, and I don't know how to say it, but I think there was one woman who was like, "Oh, my gosh, this has been so life-changing for me because I thought I was just stuck in these-" what I had to wear type.

[00:31:27] Christa Biegler, RD: I don't even know how to describe sometimes the power that you see unfolding in front of you, and that's like my favorite thing about group work is that we're in this small group together. We're meeting every week for a few weeks in a row, and you become, you start to get to know these people, and some of you have similarities and differences.

[00:31:46] Christa Biegler, RD: But it's fun 'cause you can play off of each other. But there is this whole identity work because the way we dress, the way we It's like such a reflection of how we're feeling about ourselves on a day-to-day basis. How, yeah. How 

[00:31:57] Gillian Jakob Kieser: you feel and like which parts of you are accepted and which parts you've pushed into the shadow.

[00:32:03] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. 

[00:32:04] Gillian Jakob Kieser: I think this is- And you've seen- ... what you're getting at is like a, a lot of times during the course of our work together, stuff comes up. We're like, "Oh, this showed up. Oh, I see this reflected in you." And people are like blocking it o- "Oh, no. I'm not that," because there's something. I'm not that dramatic.

[00:32:19] Gillian Jakob Kieser: I'm not that theatrical." People, a lot of women have grown up being told they're like too much, too loud- ... too in your face, too whatever, too big. And so they've put that away and created a persona, an aesthetic, a way of moving around the world that's much smaller, quieter, tamer. And so a lot of times the style work is almost this like sneaky on-ramp, 'cause you're like, "It's just about pants."

[00:32:41] Gillian Jakob Kieser: And it's like no. We're like popping the can on all the stuff that's been like punched down and hidden away. And then when it gets released, like you s- you've seen it happen in the group that we were in, that like people just like blossom when they finally are like, "Oh, I was always told I was too much.

[00:32:59] Gillian Jakob Kieser: That's because I have this romantic streak that loves to tell stories and weave worlds and get everyone involved and loves to laugh and, be bright and vivacious." And you can start to see those qualities for the first time often in a positive light, right? Like too chatty is like the shadow, the, the, the one side of the coin of like vivacious and magnetic.

[00:33:20] Gillian Jakob Kieser: And as a kid, I think we a- as children, like people push that down, and they're like, "Stay quiet. Stay small." But as an adult, like it's so important to make spaces where those qualities can come to light and be celebrated. That's an amazing quality, someone who can capture everyone's attention and tell stories and be...

[00:33:38] Gillian Jakob Kieser: in- incredible. And so we wanna- create the wardrobe, the costume, the, the physical world that celebrates that energy that person has always had. And I've seen it so many times where it's like these qualities come to life, that they're like, there's like tears, of recognition- ... of liberation, of just it's a release of "Oh, I don't have to hide that away anymore.

[00:33:59] Gillian Jakob Kieser: I'm allowed to just be extra?" Yeah. You're allowed to be extra. You are. You are anyway. You're not hiding it from anyone. 

[00:34:06] Christa Biegler, RD: Exactly. It's it's interesting, right? Because people are able to step into this much more authentic version of themselves. Totally. And I remember getting that typing the first time I was told, "You're a natural dramatic."

[00:34:16] Christa Biegler, RD: It was just that it ended right there, and I was like, I am not the person who does work on my own very well. It was like, "Here is your home- all of your homework to do." 

[00:34:25] Gillian Jakob Kieser: It's hard. It's very abstract too. It's 

[00:34:27] Christa Biegler, RD: hard to do. Because you don't realize, I would've been left with what I found on Google, which isn't very, it's not very Googleable, as we were talking about.

[00:34:35] Gillian Jakob Kieser: No, and to your point about the group work I think this is so magical too, especially for style, whereas like- But to go back to my story about myself and my best friend, who is a J.Crew model and I'm not, it's like seeing people in a group who are just naturally different from you.

[00:34:48] Gillian Jakob Kieser: We're always gonna have a heterogeneous group of body types, ages, archetypes- ... energy, personalities, all the stuff. Sometimes the lessons hit home when you're like, "Oh, this was something I was always trying to be, but here, this person that I now know is that so naturally." Now I can see the difference, like the delta between them and me, and it helps me see myself more objectively than when you're just by yourself in a room.

[00:35:10] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Anyone who's listening who's ever read a color analysis blog and tried to type themselves- ... it's like, "Is my skin warm or cool?" You're like, "I don't know. Maybe both?" But it's only someone with a trained eye, and when you can see yourself in context among the spectrum of all the different things, you're like, "Oh, yeah compared to this person, yeah, I'm very this other thing."

[00:35:30] Gillian Jakob Kieser: And I think the group container's so powerful because it... the same way that you can approach other people's differences lovingly and be like, "Oh yeah, she's really awkward, and it's really awesome and the best part of her personality," you can start to love those parts of yourself, too, that you might not have had a name for before.

[00:35:47] Christa Biegler, RD: I was just thinking about there is... it's a great, it's a beautifully diverse group, and I was just thinking about age and how we probably subconsciously stereotype fashion stuff- Yeah ... for being a youthful thing. And as a 40-year-old I may have been almost the youngest person in that group, in that, at that time.

[00:36:07] Christa Biegler, RD: And I have no idea. But- Yeah ... it doesn't really matter because I'm, at this point, I'm realizing, oh, I was just getting started, and I'm still gonna get dressed every day of my life for the next 40 years, so it's still worthwhile. And how incredible to actually feel like yourself. And the other cool thing is you're able to order things and say, "Oh, that's not me.

[00:36:29] Christa Biegler, RD: I actually don't need to keep that thing in scarcity that there won't be more." There will be more. 

[00:36:33] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Totally. 

[00:36:34] Christa Biegler, RD: There will be more- And I think- ... that's more perfect ... 

[00:36:35] Gillian Jakob Kieser: there's... Oh my God, there's infinite stuff, and there's always more perfect stuff. 

[00:36:39] Gillian Jakob Kieser: And I think one of the biggest, like, level ups is having language- And a framework for not only when you're like, "I don't think this works," now you have language for why.

[00:36:48] Gillian Jakob Kieser: 'Cause you're like, "Oh, this is too ingenue for me. My..." It's a natural ingenue. I don't have ingenue. It's going back. I need something with this hemline or this silhouette or whatever. It takes some of the guesswork and intuition out of it almost, where once you figure out your archetypes and understand the hallmarks of what they are for you, where for you the comfort, the whimsy, bold colors cool shapes, nothing too shapeless, but nothing too form fit, right?

[00:37:13] Gillian Jakob Kieser: We've got a list of what we like. When something comes, it either hits the list or it doesn't, and it's takes the emotion out of it where you're just like- ... "Oh, yeah, no, this wasn't gonna work, and it's not my fault. It's not my body. I don't need to change." It's just like a mismatch.

[00:37:25] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Cool, shipping it back. 

[00:37:26] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. So many little things like that, for sure. I was thinking about the ages, the... Oh, one of the other takeaways that I got, I, which I slipped in before, was I would wake up in athleisure wear and maybe work out and then not shower, and then I wore that the rest of the day.

[00:37:42] Christa Biegler, RD: There's nothing necessarily wrong with that. But when we were coming up with things that you need, right? What are the holes that you need, why you feel like you have nothing? Which is one of the last steps. Pajamas was not something I really considered a thing that I would spend any dollar amount on necessarily.

[00:37:59] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. I'd be like, "Why would I buy pajamas if I could just wear my athleisure wear?" And it's been super fun, but it's like I go to... I sleep every night, seven nights a week. And so it's just Seven nights, I think. Maybe it's six nights, seven days. It doesn't matter, but it's been so fun to get a few pairs of pajamas and be like, "All right.

[00:38:18] Christa Biegler, RD: I'm getting dressed in my pajamas, and I'm getting dressed in my next outfit after I take off my pajamas." It's like you can't really wear your pink Snoopy pajamas all day long. You can, it's just not the same. It's not as easy as athleisure, and so it's yeah, these are just for these, all of the these massive hours all week long that I actually need something for.

[00:38:39] Christa Biegler, RD: And it's a silly little thing, but do you hear the point? It's like it wasn't about buying pajamas. It was about actually getting dressed and that's a choice. I don't, I didn't necessarily need to get dressed, but I wanted to, 'cause you can feel a little bit nicer. You know what I mean?

[00:38:53] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Yeah, I think I do. I do. I think it's, a lot of times the, the gulf for people is ev- so many women are so used to getting dressed when they're gonna see somebody or they're going someplace where they need to be dressed. And so we just turn that off at home. We're like no one's gonna see me, so it doesn't matter what I wear."

[00:39:09] Gillian Jakob Kieser: And you forget that actually the most important person is seeing you, and that is you. 

[00:39:13] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Every time you look in the mirror, look down at yourself. And it's not about dressing up or being fancy, but wearing something that feels like- cohesive- Cool ... and aligned and cool and you enjoy it.

[00:39:23] Gillian Jakob Kieser: We were talking about your kind of at-home chores clothes of like- ... cool crop tops with graphic prints on them and colors, and it's yeah, it functions the same as a generic tank top, but you feel more like yourself in it. And that's- ... actually the most powerful thing of all and the best reason of all.

[00:39:38] Christa Biegler, RD: When you were pulling all of this together, it is it's incredible because it's like anything. You get all of these things, and then you start to streamline them, et cetera. And one thing I would say that you- do or have us do is actually experience things where you're like, pull out things that you like and pull out things that you're not sure about, and then we'll talk through them about w- why that is.

[00:40:02] Christa Biegler, RD: So I see this common theme of experience trumps everything, right? Where it's oh, when you actually don't just talk about it, but go pull out the things, it helps you understand it a little bit more. How did you land on some of these core tenets of fashion and how you would share them?

[00:40:18] Christa Biegler, RD: Because I think the reason I ask this is because I'm so outside of this industry and so unaware that I only understand what I understand, and there's these companies that do color and style, et cetera. And then you have Gillian over here doing this other unique thing that she's amass- amassed from other places.

[00:40:35] Christa Biegler, RD: And so I'm just a little bit curious about how that happened. 

[00:40:39] Gillian Jakob Kieser: It's funny. It's just one of these things where every part of your life combines to create this unique e- viewpoint and experience. And for my corporate career, I've worked in software. And so the world of software is very much about testing and iterating and building things- incrementally, testing them, getting real word- world feedback, and changing small doses. And so I think that has really impacted the way that I view how to do everything, as including the way, how I teach style. And as you said, it's like, it's very kinesthetic. It's very experiential. I would say w- road testing any of these concept is gonna give you so much more data- 

[00:41:15] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Than sitting and thinking about it or theorizing or doing journaling. That stuff is important, and we do that. But you you know that it's like, try it on, take it out for the day, and then come back and report. How did it work? What was the feeling? Because as we're doing these archetypes, we're trying to tweak the blends.

[00:41:32] Gillian Jakob Kieser: As you said, it's a process. It's not like stamp, diagnosed, you're out of here. And so if I send you out in a natural dramatic outfit, and you come back and you're like, "It was okay," I'm like, "Okay what was missing? Let's talk through it." And that evidence, the data from your experience of wearing it, points us, gives us a clue of ah, it was missing this playful element, or it was missing this other whatever thing it is.

[00:41:55] Gillian Jakob Kieser: For everyone, that's gonna be different. And two women could go out in the same outfit. One comes back and says, "Nailed it. This was perfect." And the other one's like, "It didn't quite feel right." And that's where the work gets so personal. And so yeah, the, the- the goal of all of it is gathering data, and it's first-person experiential data that's the most important.

[00:42:16] Gillian Jakob Kieser: I think the other piece that influenced how I built that is I have this philosophy, this theory that's like nothing got in your closet by accident. Everyone right now listening to this has a closet that has stuff in it, and you bought all those things some way, somehow, or someone gave it to you and you said, "Okay, I'll take this," or whatever.

[00:42:34] Gillian Jakob Kieser: And before we start from scratch building you this theoretical wardrobe, start from what you have, and we can excavate and get the data from those items of "What were you thinking when you bought this? Okay, this is what you thought you would use it for, and then you never ended up using it.

[00:42:48] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Why is that? Is it 'cause of something physical about the garment, the shape, the shoulder placement, the texture, how it feels? Or was it about the lifestyle where it's a formal garment and you have 0 out of 30 occasions to wear that per month, and so it sits in your closet?" The information is there, and a lot of it is, like- not about going shopping.

[00:43:07] Gillian Jakob Kieser: It's about mining the information, which as you said it can be hard to do as solo work. It's nice to do in a group, having someone to help you interpret the data and the things, 'cause we're all so used to looking at those things in our closet and being like, "Bleh." But like bleh is not data.

[00:43:22] Gillian Jakob Kieser: But we can use that to p- pick apart the information and say, "Okay, what does this have to show us? This was almost there. Here's the one thing it was missing. The formality level was wrong, but the style vibe was right," or vice versa, or whatever. Yeah. So I think my approach is yeah, it's emotional, it's shadow work, it's identity, but it's very analytical too.

[00:43:40] Gillian Jakob Kieser: And I think that's from my background working with software engineers for so long. I like working with analytical type people, 'cause we can teach this stuff to people who never could find themselves in the world of style, 'cause it was a little too, creative. 

[00:43:53] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. And although there's a little effort going in to learn a new skill, the outcome...

[00:43:58] Christa Biegler, RD: the work is never necessarily done, but I am in a point of contentment, where it's like, oh, I can clearly see more of what I want, and I have the desire to spend less because I don't have a bunch of holes. When you always have holes and you don't know how to fill them- 

[00:44:15] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Yeah ... 

[00:44:16] Christa Biegler, RD: then it's endless on filling them.

[00:44:18] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. And then you just keep- You- ... buying things that you don't wanna wear anyway, accidentally. 

[00:44:21] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Totally. 

[00:44:22] Christa Biegler, RD: Totally. Unbeknownst to you. You don't even understand it yourself,

[00:44:24] Gillian Jakob Kieser: no, 'cause you always think you're one purchase away from solving it, but it's always by accident, 'cause you don't know what that purchase is gonna do.

[00:44:31] Gillian Jakob Kieser: You're just like, "Something's not working. Maybe this is the thing that solves everything." I had one client tell me a story recently that was like it was the, I don't remember if it was the Nordstrom half yearly sale. It was some big sale event where her husband knew she was always so excited, go buy everything, and he's like, "Honey, this is coming up.

[00:44:47] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Are you gonna go in?" And she was like, "Actually, I don't need anything." And it was such a shift of her from the inside out. It wasn't that she was like, "No, I shouldn't." She was just like, truly didn't have any desire, 'cause she loved what she had and everything worked, and she didn't feel like she was missing any th- mysterious thing anymore.

[00:45:05] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Yeah. Which is such a cool change. 

[00:45:07] Christa Biegler, RD: It's all these things we don't actually realize are problems. Yeah. And before we hit record, you said, we were talking about how this creates a lower stress life overall because of when you open your closet and it doesn't take... You aren't confused about what to put on, right?

[00:45:25] Christa Biegler, RD: You said there's, this a problem that occurs every single morning. Will you remember, can you repeat that? 

[00:45:29] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Yes. Yeah, totally. So this is... I had another client who told me, before she took the class, she was saying getting dressed in the morning was a chore preferable only to changing kitty litter. I was like, "Heard.

[00:45:42] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Okay." But yeah, this is, I had this realization recently that's like, getting dressed is part of everyone's morning routine. And we hear a lot of people talk about ideal morning routines, how to get your morning off to the right start, meditate and journal, all this stuff, and no one really talks about the getting dressed part of your morning, where you open your closet, and so many women are out there going like, "Ugh."

[00:46:01] Gillian Jakob Kieser: And their closet is full of bad memories, bad body feeling. They... it's just this moment that recurs every day that doesn't work. And if you could just swap out that moment for the identical moment where you open your closet and go, "Ah, I see all my friends in here. I like everything in here.

[00:46:17] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Everything is a viable option, and I'm excited to pick," like, how much better would your morning go? How much better would your day go? It's yeah, it's fun to be in s- be stylish and in fashion and everything, but even for women who that's not that important, there's an efficiency. There's a logistical benefit to solving this for yourself, 'cause it makes every day go smoother.

[00:46:39] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. That's fun. Gillian, is there anything that we didn't touch on that you wanna leave women with, women or men? Maybe you only work with women, so maybe just women. Not sure. And then where can people find you online? 

[00:46:49] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Yeah, absolutely. I would say the thing I want people to remember is that no matter who you are, what your body shape is like, where you live, what your lifestyle, how old you are, like, there, there is space here for you, and you deserve to feel good about how you look.

[00:47:06] Gillian Jakob Kieser: There's no one whose body is wrong who can't find their way in clothes. There are gonna be clothes that are gonna feel good on you. You might not have them right now. But yeah there's space for everyone, and I... My mission is to have everyone feeling good in their physical being and appreciating the unique gifts that they have.

[00:47:23] Gillian Jakob Kieser: That's what I love to do. And people can find me on Instagram. I'm very active there at https://www.instagram.com/gillianjakobkieser. 

[00:47:29] Christa Biegler, RD: Perfect. Thank you so much for coming on today. 

[00:47:32] Gillian Jakob Kieser: Thanks so much, Christa.