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On this episode of the Less Stressed Life, we're wrapping up our October ADHD series with psychologist Dr. Ari Tuckman. We talk about what an ADHD diagnosis actually looks like, why ADHD often goes unnoticed in girls and women, and how it can affect relationships and parenting. We also explore the difference between using ADHD as an explanation versus an excuse, along with practical strategies for managing procrastination, time blindness, and everyday challenges.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

🧠 What an accurate ADHD diagnosis looks like
🧬 Genetics and why ADHD can go undiagnosed
❤️ ADHD in relationships and parenting
⏰ Managing time blindness and procrastination
🧩 ADHD as an explanation, not an excuse

ABOUT GUEST:
Dr. Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA, is a psychologist, international speaker, and ADHD thought leader with over 25 years of experience in private practice. He specializes in working with teens and adults with ADHD, as well as couples navigating relationship challenges. He is the author of five books on adult ADHD, including his newest, The ADHD Productivity Manual, and received CHADD's Hall of Fame Award in 2023.

WHERE TO FIND GUEST:
Website: https://www.drarituckman.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/arituckmanpsyd

SPONSOR:
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🤝 You don’t have to figure it out alone
❤️ Do your best and leave the rest

WHERE TO FIND CHRISTA:
Website: https://www.christabiegler.com/
Instagram: @anti.inflammatory.nutritionist
Podcast Instagram: @lessstressedlife
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lessstressedlife
Quick Links: https://www.christabiegler.com/links
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✨Grab Cortisol Reset here: https://christabiegler.com/cortisol-a

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TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: ADHD is a fine explanation, but it's not a great excuse, and I think here's the difference. The problem with using something as an excuse, whether it's ADHD or whatever, is it depends on the other person being willing to do the excusing, right?

[00:00:17] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And that could be, "Hey boss, I have ADHD, I'm always gonna be late," or, "Hey honey, I have ADHD, I'm gonna forget to do this stuff you asked me to do." And as long as the other person like, "Okay, that's fine, just, do what you can," then you're okay. It works as an excuse. But what happens when you get a new boss, or you get a new romantic partner, or they just get fed up?

Podcast Intro ADHD Month

[00:00:37] Christa Biegler, RD: Welcome to the Less Stressed Life podcast. I'm your host, Christa Biegler, and we're in the ninth year of this show, and I just want to say thank you so much for being here. I'm personally in a season of wanting to pay it forward, to share everything I have learned from our clients over the last decade so that I can share it with as many people as possible in the next years, in the next decade.

[00:01:01] Christa Biegler, RD: I'd love to hear from you about what you want more of in the future, in the coming months of this podcast. Feel free to drop me a line at christabiegler.com/question. Now, this month our theme is ADHD. I've become pretty interested in this topic in the last couple of years because I'm probably undiagnosed ADHD myself, so I set out to gather strategies on motivation, ADHD in women, conversations with therapists to bump up against the status quo, so to speak, diagnosing, improving executive function, and of course, one of my favorite topics, ADHD and nutrients.

[00:01:36] Christa Biegler, RD: I want incredible mental focus too, and I've found that when I'm supporting my body in the correct ways, I almost don't have some of those symptoms that usually come along with ADHD. I even created a small mini program on this called Finally Focused: Mental Clarity on Demand, because that's what I want when I need to focus.

[00:01:56] Christa Biegler, RD: Usually, you can only get it after you buy the Cortisol Reset, but it's on sale on its own for a limited time. The link is in the show notes. I thought it was only appropriate for ADHD month. You can get it at christabiegler.com/focus. Now, on to the show. 

Meet Ari Tuckman

[00:02:11] Christa Biegler, RD: Today on The Less Stressed Life I'm joined by Ari Tuckman, who is a psychologist, international presenter, and ADHD thought leader, and the author of five books on adult ADHD, including his newest, The ADHD Productivity Manual. Welcome to the show, Ari. 

[00:02:26] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: It is great to be here. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:29] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Five books on ADHD and such a wide variety of topics. It's like integrative care, right? What really caught me was the one, I think it was about sex life. Yeah. So it's like, There were just such a rollercoaster of topics about ADHD, so I can't wait to talk about the patterns that have emerged for you in practice.

[00:02:47] Christa Biegler, RD: But first, why is this the focal point of your career? How did this happen? Do you have ADHD? Sure. Why did you focus on this so hot and heavily- 

[00:02:57] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Yeah ... 

[00:02:58] Christa Biegler, RD: throughout the last 25 years? 

[00:02:59] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: So the real answer is I stumbled into it, right? When I came out of grad school way back in the late '90s, I was trying to figure out what am I doing here?

[00:03:09] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: We knew about ADHD in kids, and if you were a pediatrician or a therapist who saw kids, then you were, I don't know, somewhat dialed into ADHD at least, right? You knew to look for it, and you knew what to do if someone showed up and had ADHD. But adults were a bit of a underserved population.

[00:03:28] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And, the thing of it is kids with ADHD, if all goes well they survive into adulthood, and they become adults with ADHD. But we're just whatever, you're not in high school, how hard could life be after high school? So it just became this kind of I don't know, this like open space where there were just not enough people talking about ADHD in adults and writing about it and presenting on it.

[00:03:52] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And I just... I don't know. It was just a good fit. And then of course in hindsight, I think back on like friends at different stages of life and I'm like, oh yeah, she totally has ADHD. Oh, him also. Okay, yeah, that. Oh, yeah. Well, And also him too. So you find who you resonate with, and and there you go. So- 

[00:04:10] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. 

[00:04:11] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: What is the pre- So yeah, a bit of luck and a bit of, meant to be, 

[00:04:13] Christa Biegler, RD: yeah. What is the prevalence of ADHD? 

[00:04:16] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: 4 or 5% the population. One in 20, one in 25. If you talk about couples, right? So you multiply times two, that makes about one in 10, one in 12.

[00:04:26] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Couples have one partner with ADHD, so yeah not the smallest subset of the population, certainly. 

[00:04:34] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, for sure. Sometimes I think we get into groups. I just went- Sure ... to an entrepreneur conference, and would you... I don't know if you know if it's true or not, but it sure seemed like this conference- Yeah

[00:04:45] Christa Biegler, RD: it's like a larger number of entrepreneurs have ADHD. Yeah. Is that correct? 

[00:04:49] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: I think that's definitely true, and I think there's... I can think of two different reasons. I'm sure there's a lot of sub reasons and whatever. I think one of them is that, to succeed the sort of non-entrepreneur route, right?

[00:05:03] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: The working for other people route requires that you have, I don't know, you did certain things in school, you have certain kind of degrees. Maybe you've progressed up the ladder in the standard ways, and if you've especially had untreated ADHD, I think all of those steps maybe would be harder, right?

[00:05:22] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: So it's harder to get to that higher level that perhaps would be a very good fit for you. So I think some folks say, "I'm just gonna do this on my own," right? I think the other reason is that I think folks with ADHD can be more willing to take risks. Or another way of putting it is the soul-crushing boredom of working your way through their bureaucracy is a life too terrible to contemplate.

[00:05:49] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Like, why not put the 529 into the new business? Honey, this is definitely gonna work, I can tell, right? So I think there's an element of that as well. 

[00:05:59] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, funny. 

Diagnosis Myths And Process

[00:06:00] Christa Biegler, RD: Who does the diagnosing? I think you are a diagnosing clinician- ... but sometimes It's funny to me how fuzzy that is.

[00:06:07] Christa Biegler, RD: I feel like I feel when I look around, there's a lot of self-diagnosing going on. What is the actual- Oh, yeah ... it looks to me also, even when you look this up, it feels a little bit gray to me. Will you tell us a little bit- Yeah ... about that diagnostic how that looks for you in your practice? 

[00:06:22] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Sure. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:06:23] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: It's a really good question. By the way- And who can do it? ... watching a, a TikTok does not qualify as being- Yeah ... diagnosed by someone else either. Let's just start there. So the people who can diagnose it are... it's broad categories, so things like psychologists, psychiatrists, some physicians, not hopefully your dermatologist- but maybe your internist Depending on the state and depending on training, it can be folks like counselors or social workers or marriage and family therapists. But more important is two things. Does a person actually know what the hell they're doing, right? Do they understand ADHD? Do they know how to look for it?

[00:07:01] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And do they know how to tell what looks like ADHD but is actually something else, right? So there's an element of that. And also, do they actually spend enough time? So filling out a couple rating scales and having a four-minute talk with your GP probably doesn't qualify as a good enough diagnostic process.

[00:07:20] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Also, spending $5,000 on neuropsychological testing is a giant, I'm gonna just be blunt, can be a giant waste of money and does not actually pick up ADHD all that well. So there's something in between. Rating scales can be helpful. Definitely talking to parents for sort of teens and even young adults.

[00:07:40] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: For adult adults, I always include a romantic partner if we can get them to show up logistically. Getting really good information and running through a person's life. How are you doing now? How do you do at home? How do you do at work? What about before this? How'd you do in that job?

[00:07:58] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: What about, oh, you have a two-year-old and a four-year-old? Okay yeah, obviously you're getting crushed by life. What was... how did you do before you had someone waking you up three times a night? Did you function any differently then? How did you do in college, if you went? How did you do in high school?

[00:08:13] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: What's your family history? Really getting a clear picture of not only what is happening, but how is it happening. And especially if we talk about women with ADHD, often they look pretty good on paper, right? They did well enough in school. They're probably hanging in there at work.

[00:08:32] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Their children are still alive and seem to be thriving. But they are just killing themselves to hold it all together, and they feel like they're failing. And God forbid anyone actually came into their house because it's a disaster, right? On the outside, it's easy to say "Ah, you have young kids.

[00:08:51] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Everyone's feels like they have ADHD with young kids," right? And true, and also there's more to it, right? Some people are struggling a lot more than others. So it's about degree, and it's about impairment, right? And the example I use is Every one of us once in a while can't find our keys, right?

[00:09:11] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: "Oh, where are my keys? Ugh." And you're like, "Oh, wow, there it is. That was, slightly annoying." And then there are people who can't find their keys, are chronically late to work, and have literally lost jobs because they can't find their keys and they run late. Those are not the same thing, so like that is the big separator. To what extent is this legitimately impacting your life or your mental wellbeing? 

[00:09:38] Christa Biegler, RD: I'm personally not particularly attached to diagnostic terms, but I feel- ... that the greater population loves to be validated. Sure. But what I'm hearing you say,

[00:09:49] Christa Biegler, RD: It feels like diagnosing this correctly may not be happening all the time, it seems- Yeah ... like it, 'cause it sounds a little bit subjective based on the person giving the diagnosis. And maybe there's lots of things like that. I don't know. Sure. And it doesn't- totally matter, but I'm just curious what that generally...

[00:10:07] Christa Biegler, RD: and I'm curious also, do you feel like it takes more than one session for you to do an appropriate diagnosis? 

[00:10:13] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: If you do it right I do a two-hour meeting, right? I think if you take the time and if you're getting consistent information, so the person is saying stuff and their spouse is saying stuff that very much lines up.

[00:10:25] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: If you're getting different stories, right- ... then you gotta parse out okay, wait, what's what? There is an element of subjectivity in the sense of I don't know, how many jobs do you need to lose before we say that seems to be significant," right? Yeah. And maybe you and me we would draw that line a little bit differently.

[00:10:41] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And yeah, I think if someone is beyond the sort of mild range, I think probably most clinicians who understand it would probably mostly agree. ... But, there are many things in life that are at least somewhat subjective, and I think, you know- ... an example we can use is measuring blood pressure is very objective, right?

[00:11:01] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: If we measure your blood, if five people measure your blood pressure, if they do it right, they will all come to pretty much the same numbers, right? But what is a bit more subjective is what do those numbers mean, right? And 20 years ago, the numbers that qualified as high blood pressure were actually a lot higher, and the reason why the numbers have come down is not only because pharma companies wanna sell more meds, let's be honest, but also as the research evolved, what we realized is actually there is damage to your body caused at these lower numbers.

[00:11:37] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: So those are actually the places where it's perhaps worth intervening either with medication or exercise or whatever, right? So you know, some of it is that. Even with objective things, there t- still takes an element of subjective interpretation. Is this worth addressing? Is there sufficient negative impact on your life that we wanna do something about it?

[00:12:01] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And, I agree. I'm not that caught up in diagnostic labels, right? I think they're helpful if they're helpful. I think sometimes they're helpful to help people understand, "Oh, no wonder." I think they can be helpful in finding community, others who have whatever similar thing.

[00:12:17] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. 

[00:12:17] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: I think really where diagnostic labels are perhaps the most utilitarianly helpful is, does this need medication? If so, which one? But I don't know. Whether you take meds or not for ADHD, you still gotta do all the strategies, and we all gotta work hard, and we all gotta make good choices.

[00:12:34] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: That's hardly unique to ADHD. 

[00:12:36] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, for sure. You mentioned a question ago, you said something about discerning what looks like ADHD and is actually something else. Can you give me some- ... examples of things that look like ADHD, but it's really something else clinically? 

[00:12:50] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Sure. It could be, I don't know, someone has disrupted sleep, right?

[00:12:54] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And maybe they just have terrible sleep habits, right? Or maybe they actually have a diagnosable sleep apnea or something that's disrupting the quality of their sleep. Maybe they're anxious, maybe they're depressed, maybe it's bipolar disorder. Maybe, I don't know, they're a bit on the spectrum.

[00:13:11] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Maybe they're just, I don't know, selfish, frankly, right? And that's why they forget to do the things they don't want to do because they don't want to do it, and they know you will, right? So there's a lot of other things potentially that are going on. But also people are still people- and there's all the complexity of who one is and what's going on. So you really want to get a good understanding of who this person is, where... what are their strengths, what are their struggles, and how are they getting there? As an example, I evaluated someone yesterday, really bright.

[00:13:47] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Went through PA school, which is pretty rigorous. Did, oh, did pretty well on the test, but did far less than she should have for a month before the last, days of the test, and then scrambled like crazy and was smart enough to be able to learn enough of the material that she could pass.

[00:14:05] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Definitely not the recommended way to go through PA school, right? And all her very regimented classmates, every day they went through their notes, and they rewrote their outlines, and they did the reading, right? There are two very different ways to get through, and in her case, ADHD didn't show up on her transcript, because again, her grades were good, but rather in the, crushing stress and the sleep deprivation of getting through those last few days before exams.

[00:14:33] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. I'm just smiling because I remember doing that. 

Women Trauma And Brain Basics

[00:14:36] Christa Biegler, RD: You were talking about- ... women with ADHD. We have a whole episode a little bit on women, but more Of ADHD developing or showing up more later. Something I wanna talk about is we have stereotypes, right? So there was a long time we referenced, I believe, ADHD as ADD.

[00:14:53] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. And so when we think of... I don't know when that changed, so you can fill us in on that, but it takes a long time to actually change humanity and how we- ... perceive things. And so what I'm really thinking about is I would love to know how this this shows up in female children. Yeah. Because my understanding is that it is against the stereotype of what we usually think of with boys kinda jumping off- Sure

[00:15:15] Christa Biegler, RD: of chairs and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so does it show up differently in girls and specifically in female adolescents? 

[00:15:22] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Yeah. It does. It absolutely does. And, the stereotype of ADHD is Calvin and Hobbes. Kid who just cannot sit still, bouncing off the walls, imagination all over the place, right?

[00:15:35] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: That is the classic ADHD. But there are those who have the more inattentive subtype, so they're not hyperactive, they're not impulsive. So this is sometimes called ADD 'cause it- ... sounds like it should be. But with... It's technically one of the three subtypes of ADHD, which is the it's the new term.

[00:15:54] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: It's new from the 1980s, so it's only- ... 40-something years old, but one day- Yeah ... it'll catch on. So girls are often not that bouncing off the walls, kinda not like the boys are, everybody knows the kid who's not sitting still in class, right? Those kids get diagnosed really young because they are making themselves known.

[00:16:15] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: But if you're a sweet girl who is completely distracted and forgetful, but you're not making trouble, the teacher is not re- referring your name to the guidance counselor, right? You're not getting emails at home that "Jenny's lovely, but she's really not getting her work done," so girls will fly under the radar more because they're not as overtly hyperactive or it will come out as being really kinda chatty and talky, you know- ... but not that running around the classroom kinda thing. But there's also more social pressure on girls and women to I don't know, look like you got it together, and don't be difficult- Yeah

[00:16:53] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: and consider other people, and boys still have more social permission- To be a pain in the ass, right? Yeah. To say, "This is stupid, I don't wanna do it." So the girls are, and this is massive, like broad brush strokes obviously- ... when we talk about gender, but like the girls are gonna kill themselves more to look like they're holding it together, but then maybe she does fine at school, but then she comes home and just has an absolute meltdown 'cause she's been white-knuckling all day.

[00:17:22] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Or homework takes two and a half hours to do two worksheets, and you gotta have a parent there wrestling them the whole way. So it shows up a little bit differently, and then you multiply that out into, adulthood and, different gender role expectations and everything else, and it, it looks very different in men and women as 

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[00:19:18] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: well.

[00:19:20] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. I wanna talk more about parenting and children dynamics and also relationship- ... dynamics, but this gets me thinking a little bit before we evolve out of diagnostics 'cause it's just been interesting to even try to loosely understand the diagnostic criteria. There's one person in this space, and I just was ch- fact-checking here, that talks about you either have ADHD as a child and it's just, there and it was never diagnosed, or you had a trauma of sorts to your brain.

[00:19:48] Christa Biegler, RD: You had some kind of brain change as an adult. You're not just, you don't just turn it on as an adult is- Sure ... I think essentially- Yeah ... the, the gist of it. Is that correct? Is that true? How far off is that? Or is that- Yeah ... is that along the right lines? 

[00:20:01] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: No, that is that is generally correct in the sense that ADHD is defined as a condition that begins in childhood.

[00:20:11] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Now, granted when you're two what are we expecting out of two-year-olds? They're all a little bit crazy anyway. But, if I ask you, "How did you do at five?" you probably have very little to tell me, right? Yeah. But- if you've got a five-year-old who's particularly hyperactive, that might be a bit more obvious.

[00:20:27] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Would you be able to tell a five-year-old who's really distractible? I don't know. Maybe not. But, in general, through childhood, through adolescence, there are some indicators, right? It's not unique. It didn't just begin, at age 37 or something. Now it's harder to attestest to those...

[00:20:46] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: I would have a very short conversation if you asked me about m- how I did at school, in elementary school and whatever, right? But but nonetheless, they would have always been there. Now, sometimes people find better ways of coping and managing and compensating. So for example, I had a client who was in a really rigorous D1 soccer program.

[00:21:07] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: They had designated study halls, and he did great, 'cause you have to do your homework 'cause you're there, and you don't play on Saturday if you don't. Then he hurt his knee, stopped playing soccer, and he failed out, right? 'Cause the structure... His brain didn't change, but the structure changed.

[00:21:22] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Or someone is able to hold it together by working late, right? They stay at the office late, or they work from home to finish what they didn't finish, and then they have a kid, and now they can't stay late, and now all of a sudden, they're really struggling at work. So it be- it becomes revealed in these other ways.

[00:21:42] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: There is a theory out there that ADHD is caused by trauma. There's a psychiatrist named Gabor Mate who's done a lot of really interesting work. In this area, he's dead wrong. ADHD is not caused by trauma. There is no cross-generational passing down of trauma to explain why there's genetics of ADHD.

[00:22:05] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Trauma is caused by trauma. Trauma responses are caused by traumatic experiences. ADHD is caused by ADHD. And the reason why I'm hammering that a little bit is trauma treatment will not benefit your ADHD. It'll benefit your trauma, right? You should do it for that reason. But, let's treat the right things with the right interventions.

[00:22:25] Christa Biegler, RD: This brings up a question then about what is happening in the brain chemistry of someone with ADHD specifically? Yeah. So what we know about ADHD at this time is there are dozens of genes involved, right? So it's not like fruit flies back in high school bio where there's like one gene for this and one gene for that.

[00:22:46] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: There are dozens of genes that so far have been identified, each of which contributes just a tiny little bit to shaping how either, different receptors are shaped and how the neurotransmitter clicks into that, receptor in different parts of the brain, mostly the part of the brain in prefrontal cortex that has to do with managing attention and memory and planning and prioritizing, what are called the executive functions.

[00:23:17] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: So it mostly affects dopamine transmission. There's a little bit of norepinephrine involved. There might be a little bit of serotonin involved. But it's mostly that. So mostly ADHD is genetic, a part, and then plus a little bit of like things that happen in utero, things that happen in delivery or in early life.

[00:23:37] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Anything that affects your brain has a potential to impact ADHD, but mostly it's genetic. 

[00:23:43] Christa Biegler, RD: Okay. I knew I was gonna talk about relationships, but before we go there, you were talking about coping and managing and compensating, then you gave us a couple examples. You gave us this example of the soccer player having this structure that helped him- show up, this accountability, and when he lost that- Yeah ... he failed out. So I think this is interesting, and I always love using stories to help illustrate some of these strategies. So I, I wanna talk about that. Yeah. These are the things that, and I- you said it a different way, and you say it on your website.

[00:24:10] Christa Biegler, RD: It's... i'll quote your website. "I say that ADHD doesn't create new problems. It exacerbates the universal ones." Yeah. "We all get distracted, procrastinate, feel misunderstood, doubt ourselves, but," blah, blah, blah. So- Yeah ... this just gets, it's just magnified overall. But I think that talking through some of these common scenarios and what maybe some of those strategies are, help get us in the realm of what you've been working on more recently as well.

[00:24:32] Christa Biegler, RD: It's like, what can we actually do with this? Understanding is one thing. Diagnos- I think, people want a diagnosis because they're hoping it changes the outcome, and it- Yeah ... sometimes doesn't really change anything. It's just here is a label for you to identify with now. And then what I am wondering, actually let's put this question in first.

[00:24:49] Christa Biegler, RD: What I am wondering is if we sometimes are, especially with the, and I wonder how you feel about this because you mentioned the TikTok diagnostic. ... But I f- I wonder if we're using this label as an excuse sometimes. I don't know. I feel like I- Yeah ... any of us could be guilty of that.

[00:25:03] Christa Biegler, RD: Of course. Right? So I wonder if because of the new awareness of, so and I'm, it's not right or wrong, it's just oh I don't know if we're using ADHD as an excuse, or maybe we're just bringing more awareness. Maybe it's not a question. Maybe it's just amusing, yeah. Yeah. I don't know if you have an opinion about that, and then I'd love to talk a little bit about some of these common s- things that happen, like the accountability piece and maybe you have more stories.

[00:25:26] Christa Biegler, RD: But just the, some of these strategies for actually coping, managing, compensating for ADHD profiles. 

[00:25:32] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Yeah, no, I think, so I think you make a lot of good points, and I think that, there are absolutely people who use ADHD as an excuse, right? There's always someone doing something, right?

[00:25:41] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: So yeah, there are some, some people who do. My personal opinion, I've been saying this for years, is ADHD is a fine explanation, but it's not a great excuse, and I think here's the difference. The problem with using something as an excuse, whether it's ADHD or whatever, is it depends on the other person being willing to do the excusing, right?

[00:26:04] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And that could be, "Hey boss, I have ADHD, I'm always gonna be late," or, "Hey honey, I have ADHD, I'm gonna forget to do this stuff you asked me to do." And as long as the other person like, "Okay, that's fine, just, do what you can," then you're okay. It works as an excuse. But what happens when you get a new boss, or you get a new romantic partner, or they just get fed up?

[00:26:24] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Or it's just "Yeah, you can't be late anymore. We have a newborn." Now what? You're like you're stuck. Now by contrast, using ADHD as an explanation says I now understand why it's so hard for me to track time, right? I get lost in time. I don't notice it's time to leave. 

Externalize Your Brain

[00:26:48] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: If I start activities that are really engrossing, it's really hard for me to notice, seven minutes from now, ooh, I should stop.

[00:26:50] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: I should start getting ready, right? That's a good explanation. And knowing that, I need to do some things differently before I need to go. Maybe I don't pick up my phone when I need to leave in four minutes or whatever, right? So helping people really understand why they do what they do, and not having to reinvent the wheel because other smart people have figured out good strategies for leaving on time or remembering what your spouse asked, getting started on things you'd rather procrastinate.

[00:27:22] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: That's the power of an explanation, and I think that is much more ef- it's much more helpful. It gives the individual more agency and control over what happens rather than hoping that someone else is gonna cut you slack. Yeah. It's it's a amplified version of understanding one's self and then how- am I going to use that information, right? Yep. To maybe shift some things. It's oh, I'm- 

[00:27:47] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Yeah ... 

[00:27:47] Christa Biegler, RD: I'm more predisposed to this problem, so how can I find solutions for this problem to help me thrive essentially? And that would be- Yeah, 

[00:27:54] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: exactly ... 

[00:27:55] Christa Biegler, RD: how I would start to navigate coping and whatnot, just as a human for myself, right?

[00:28:00] Christa Biegler, RD: I've noticed this. What am I gonna do about that? What are so- let me try some experiments to work on that. So can we talk about, so you just talked about this time blindness, right? Where it's like I- Yeah ... things take longer than I expect them to, et cetera, et cetera. So however that, whatever that definition is- Yeah

[00:28:17] Christa Biegler, RD: exactly. You talked a little bit, and I don't know what all of the most characteristic ADHD things are, so this is almost a two-parter where it's like what are the really common patterns that we see? And so in those, a handful of common patterns, maybe just a few patterns, what are some of the things that you see helping people?

[00:28:38] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Yeah. So- Sort of a, I don't know, I guess if I would pick one general idea that encompasses a lot of ADHD strategies it's externalizing information or whatever, right? So in other words, internal is I'm gonna remember in my head I need to leave in seven minutes, or I'm gonna keep in mind here's all the stuff I need to do at work today, right?

[00:29:05] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And I don't know, maybe it works, right? Probably sometimes. Does it work all the time? Probably not, and the more complicated your life gets, the, lower your batting average is gonna get. So instead, externalize it, right? And we all do this, right? I'm gonna keep a to-do list. I'm gonna put stuff in my calendar.

[00:29:24] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: I'm gonna set a reminder like, ooh, I need to bring more paper towel to work, so I'm gonna take some paper towel, I'm gonna put it in front of the front door, and then I'll remember to bring it with me, right? Or setting an alarm, a reminder, like whatever, right? I don't know, setting a blocker on your phone that it shuts off at 10:00 PM so you actually get to bed on time, right?

[00:29:42] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: So setting things up ahead of time outside of our brains, which are not as reliable as we wish, onto something that is hopefully more reliable. So turning off distractions, whatever. And a l- that's this ... I don't know, like that is the basic idea behind a lot of ADHD strategies. But as you said, a lot of these are just good strategies for most people.

[00:30:06] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Most of us do better when we write stuff down, when we put stuff in our calendar, when we get rid of distractions or whatever. But folks with ADHD even more so- ... their performance is impacted by that, by what's going on- Yes ... around them. 

[00:30:20] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Okay, so from a time blindness perspective getting some of that...

[00:30:25] Christa Biegler, RD: you gave a different example, but just in general- ... it's not a good strategy to let everything roll around in the brain. I think about, I wanna talk a little bit about relationships. It's funny, my husband has done this thing for a long time that I mostly have trained him to stop doing.

[00:30:39] Christa Biegler, RD: He would always say, "Remind me to do this thing." I'm like, "I have no desire to remember your to-do list-" ... as well as mine." Write it down. Yeah. Yeah. I am not interested in being a middleman for your brain. I do not care what's going on- ... in your brain. I'm sorting through the, my own things.

[00:30:55] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. My own little story here, right? Exactly. '

[00:30:57] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Cause you're just sitting around doing nothing, so- 

[00:30:58] Christa Biegler, RD: yeah ... you could just be like- I got nothing I'm keeping track of on my own. I'm like, it's just- 

[00:31:01] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Hey, honey, it's 3:00- Would you- ... on Tuesday. Remember to call the dentist- Yeah ... back. 

[00:31:06] Christa Biegler, RD: Would you like me to forget that promptly for you?

[00:31:09] Christa Biegler, RD: Not important for me. 

Accountability and Structure

[00:31:10] Christa Biegler, RD: And then, we talked about this accountability thing, right? So what is that pattern would you s- Is there a pattern there where like with that soccer player, them showing up to... Is it the fact that there's just a structure that they had to show up?

[00:31:24] Christa Biegler, RD: What's the thing that was solving for? 

[00:31:27] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Yeah. I think it did a number of things. One is he may or may not have been interested in his classes, but he was highly motivated to play on Saturday, yeah. So that motivation, it kinda lent the homework motivation, so to speak. But I think also it's, every night from 7:00 to 9:00 or whatever, right?

[00:31:50] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: There he was, and there was nothing else to do, right? There's no cell phones. You can't be doing anything else. He can't wander down the hall and see what that- ... cute girl is doing. You're just there with your books, and that's it. So it created an environment with fewer, frankly, better alternatives.

[00:32:07] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And when he would get distracted, he'd kinda look around and all his teammates are, like, scribbling away, right? Or they're reading or whatever they're doing. Being around other people working makes it easier to do the work as well. So but, kind of this, this example you gave with your husband wanting you to remember stuff, it gets a little bit nuanced sometimes with that, right?

[00:32:30] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And, on the one hand, I will give him a little bit of credit. It's not a terrible strategy because if he asks you, there we're twice as likely between us to remember, right? In that sense, sure. Now, granted, you probably already have enough things, and then of course there's a whole gender expectation as a woman.

[00:32:48] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Somehow you wind up with a whole lot more things to remember, so you don't need yet another one, right? So we get into that whole kind of balance in the relationship. But, But there is a thing that if one of the people in the couple has a harder time, like, keeping track of timing, knowing when it's time to leave, or remembering to do things, or getting stuff done all the way to the end, or starting things early enough, right?

[00:33:10] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: There is a bit of "Hey, I would appreciate if you could help me with this. Can you give me-" ... a quick poke? Or if you see me wandering off, can you gently remind me to get back to it or whatever," right? I think some of that we can ask of each other. Where it becomes slippery territory is when it becomes like you're their mom, right?

[00:33:30] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: It's like, "You're my spouse. You're not my kid. I don't wanna be your mom. So that's too much. I- you need to take some of this back, and you need to find better ways to manage it on your own." The o- the other side of that coin though maybe is if it's something like, "Hey, did you, I don't know, book parking at the airport for our trip?"

[00:33:54] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: That reminder benefits you 'cause you wanna have a place to park the car and not pay a million dollars for valet parking. So like you stand to gain. A quick reminder might benefit you, right? But reminding your husband it's time to leave to go hang out with his buddies, that's his problem.

[00:34:12] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: That's... you don't benefit from that unless you like having him out of the house a little earlier, right? Maybe you got something to gain. But but that's where it becomes imbalanced, is when one person is working too hard on the other person's life and responsibilities. 

[00:34:25] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. 

ADHD and Couple Dynamics

[00:34:26] Christa Biegler, RD: Let's talk a for a moment about relationships, just because this must have been enough of a pattern for you in practice that you wrote an entire book about- Yeah

[00:34:35] Christa Biegler, RD: how relationships are affected by ADHD. I would love to know why you did that. What was showing up all the time? What specifically... in my head I'm like, "Oh, what was showing up in people's romantic relationships besides these power struggles?" Sure. And maybe it was just, it, maybe it was flowing down to the bedroom.

[00:34:53] Christa Biegler, RD: I don't know. Yeah. What happened where you needed a, a book on that? I feel unaware of this issue. 

[00:34:59] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Sure. Yeah, the way I framed it when I was writing the book and then when I was presenting about it was that nobody in the world of ADHD is talking about ADHD and sex.

[00:35:11] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: All the couples are talking about it, but nobody standing at the front of the room holding the, the slide clicker is talking about it. And even the books on ADHD and relationships, they have two throwaway pages about "Sex is also important find some time to make it happen.

[00:35:25] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And o- by the way, be nice to each other. Moving on." And it's I don't know it's one of the things that's important in, many relationships. And the idea was- To help couples basically have more fun together, enjoy each other more. And some of that is sexual, but some of it is also when your clothes are on, right?

[00:35:46] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: In that life is hard enough, the world is complicated enough. It's important as a couple that we feel good about each other and feel like we're on the same team, right? So you gotta deal with the business side of life as a couple, but you used to enjoy hanging out with each other, and you gotta keep enjoy hanging out with each other so you can get through the annoying and the frustrating and the tough times.

[00:36:10] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: So that's why I wanted to write that book, ADHD After Dark, to really lean into that part of life and romantic relationships that was being ignored by everybody before that. 

[00:36:23] Christa Biegler, RD: What are some of the things... I don't know, I feel like this question is still valid. I was talking about the patterns that show up in ADHD.

[00:36:31] Christa Biegler, RD: So we have this time blindness. You mentioned starting things and not finishing. You mentioned easily distracted, which could, they can all kind of overlap. And what are some of the arguments that you would see in couples? You've mentioned a few times that you like having the romantic partner.

[00:36:50] Christa Biegler, RD: At what point does someone come in and say, "This is seriously negatively affecting my romantic relationship"? What's usually going on? What are the things that are happening there? So often the sort of dynamic that develops is you could call it an under-functioner, over-functioner. You could call it a parent-child dynamic.

[00:37:10] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: But basically, the non-ADHD partner takes on more and more of the responsibilities that the couple has, whether it's taking care of the house, paying the bills, taking care of the kids, just all the million things we all do to keep our lives rolling, right? So because the partner with ADHD is less consistent, they're less reliable, they tend to procrastinate and start later, so the non-ADHD partner starts stressing out, and they're like, "Ugh, okay, I'm just gonna do it myself," right?

[00:37:39] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And I have had a lot of conversations about the non-ADHD partner saying, "I would really like to give you more of this stuff, but I don't know that you're gonna do it, so I think I need to keep it myself. I don't know. Both options seem to suck here, so I don't know what to do." And then the partner with ADHD often feels like, "Even when I offer, you don't give stuff up, or I do it a little differently, and it's somehow wrong.

[00:38:06] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: It's deemed wrong, and then you're pissed at me anyway. Like, why am I bothering?" And then both partners feel really terrible, and they're disconnected, and they're not enjoying each other. So yeah- Now, these- ... that's what we want to avoid. 

[00:38:20] Christa Biegler, RD: These sound like normal relationship problems, probably amplified by ADHD- Yeah

[00:38:23] Christa Biegler, RD: which is exactly how you describe it in general. Yep. It's oh, it's like a normal- Exactly ... problem, but amplified. 

Parenting and Family Skills

[00:38:28] Christa Biegler, RD: Let's talk about I feel like this Very it feels more common to talk about this from a parent-child dynamic, and gosh, that could be a whole episode, right? But what sort of... at what age do you start seeing children in your practice?

[00:38:45] Christa Biegler, RD: And then what happens? How do you handle that? Do you- are you seeing the child and the parents together? Essentially, the landing point here is how do families navigate this overall with their children? 

[00:38:57] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Yeah. Usually with younger kids, to the extent that they're diagnosed or brought in, usually it's a lot more work with the parents on how to manage things more effectively at home rather than doing therapy with the five-year-old, let's say.

[00:39:13] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: As those kids get older, into elementary school, maybe you're doing sessions with the child, but also one parent, maybe both, but at least one, joint sessions. As you get into middle school, you maybe start doing more individual sessions, and then in high school, but you're still tag teaming in with the parents, and it's about, it's about negotiating it out "How do we do this?" And again, whether you're a 6th grader or a 12th grader, but what is your job? What do Mom and Dad or what do your folks expect of you? What do you expect of them? You say you wanna be able to do this, have this freedom, whether it's, I don't know, to have your cellphone up in your room or to go out with your friends at night or whatever, how are you handling that?

[00:39:54] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Are you showing them that you make good choices? Are you showing them that you don't? So you're texting dumb things e- to people, and then you're getting in trouble for it, so "Unfortunately, my friend, I think we need to limit your cellphone access. You've shown us you don't use it well." So it's a lot of negotiating that stuff, and it's balancing out Building skills in the kid or teen so they can be more effective.

[00:40:18] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: It's about helping the parents set things up, right? Set your kid up for success. It's about, helping the kid or teen understand themselves better, like we said before, right? So they know better how to navigate what they need to do. It's about managing the parents' anxiety sometimes. About "I really worry about how my kid's gonna do in life because he won't brush his teeth for a week if I don't say anything," and I get that, 

[00:40:42] Christa Biegler, RD: yeah. 

[00:40:42] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: And yet freaking out about it is probably not helpful, so let's figure out what we do with this, so it's a lot of that and kinda navigating and negotiating those relationships and expectations.

[00:40:51] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Yeah. 

[00:40:52] Christa Biegler, RD: It's like normal stuff and amplified. Yeah. 

[00:40:54] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Yeah. 

[00:40:54] Christa Biegler, RD: Amplified, for sure. And then also, I always think when I work with children, I think we don't always realize this, but I hear it come through for you, it's like twice as much work. It's more work than- it's... it takes some capacity, it takes some brain space, right?

[00:41:08] Christa Biegler, RD: Because it's not one... You think it's let me fix this other person, but typically it's let me fix myself or help adjust myself- ... to help with this other person, and that's the respon- that's our adult responsibility whether we like it- Yes ... or not very often. Very often. 

[00:41:23] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Yeah. Yeah. But- It's what we signed on for when we had this kid. So yeah, exactly. Yeah. I don't know, I've got a line you can't expect your kids to behave better than you do. That like, yeah, if your kid is doing something annoying, right? Maybe it is genuinely annoying, you're right, but also what can you do different either before or during and possibly after to alter how those moments go down.

[00:41:48] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, sure. It's an experiment every time almost. 

[00:41:51] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Yeah. 

[00:41:52] Christa Biegler, RD: Until we- Yeah ... find something. 

[00:41:53] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Yeah, with a moving target. Exactly. 

Modern ADHD Advice and Wrap

[00:41:55] Christa Biegler, RD: Okay, so you've been doing this work 25 years, 40,000 patient contact hours. Something I'm enjoying asking my guests right now is- ... how have things really shifted and changed, or what's your assessment of the changes in the last decade, last two decades overall in practice?

[00:42:15] Christa Biegler, RD: What are some of your takeaways, and you probably wanna split those up because they're, they're- Sure ... probably different. 

[00:42:24] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Obviously, the sort of our, the research has evolved, right? Obviously over the last 25 years. There's more research and more research on different types of things. But as a clinician, I really think the biggest difference from when I first started out in 1999 with this stuff is there is much more awareness about ADHD- right? And particularly in adults, but also in kids. But, even just girls and women, half- ... the population of the planet, slightly more of, like, how that is a little bit different. But, even other sort of nuances. Even just these last few years there's been much more research and awareness.

[00:43:09] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: There's been some research. There's been much more awareness about the impact of, hormonal cycles and particularly the changes of, like- ... perimenopause and menopause, and how that affects cognitive and emotional functioning, and specifically how that can amplify ADHD symptoms.

[00:43:26] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Some kind of nuances like that, that we're actually getting into and talking about, and, I don't know, doing something with it to improve people's lives. Or ADHD is being talked about not only among I don't know, a bunch of white suburban moms, you know- ... but also other people in other places who look a little differently.

[00:43:50] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Like we're talking about it there as well those people can also get the benefit of this. So I think if... I think that has actually been the biggest difference is just this greater awareness about it and what can be done about it. 

[00:44:06] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, for sure. And with greater awareness, I feel like comes different things.

[00:44:10] Christa Biegler, RD: And so you've been such a good sport about my extreme rapid-fire questions, and so I have- Do 

[00:44:15] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: it ... 

[00:44:15] Christa Biegler, RD: I have one more that's random, but on, on par with that one. With this new awareness and with the age of social media education, which, I would say generally neutral, I think awareness is our first obstacle, so in some ways it's very good- to have more awareness. Yeah ... if we're unaware, you c- you can't do anything about it- Yep ... because you don't even know it's there. Yeah. Yeah, you're done ... so there's some good things there for sure. But with that, with the awareness increased and the conversation increased around this you wanna give us a few things that you say are bad advice for ADHD and a few things that would maybe be better advice for ADHD?

[00:44:52] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Sure. Yeah. There is definitely a lot of very simplistic, hopefully well-intentioned, very simplistic stuff out there on social media when it comes to ADHD and everything else. Yeah. Definitely consider your source, but, there's a couple things that make me a little bit crazy.

[00:45:08] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: One is this idea that, oh, stimulants are addictive, right? Or if I put my kid on a stimulant, they're gonna become a drug addict. And the reality of it is for the vast majority of people with ADHD, stimulants work really pretty well, and the side effects are pretty manageable. And if anything, for most people, if you give them too much stimulant, they will complain about it, and they will stop taking their pills, right?

[00:45:34] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: So in other words, what's helpful is the right amount. More is less helpful, right? So so that's one thing, and if anything, it is untreated ADHD that increases your risk for substance abuse problems. So people with ADHD on medication are less likely to abuse other things, which completely makes sense.

[00:45:57] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Yeah. That is one big thing. There's a lot of sort of bogus sort of nonsense, like proposed interventions, so s- supplements of various kinds, natural remedies, brain training programs, chiropractic interventions. None of that stuff has been shown to be helpful for ADHD.

[00:46:17] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: So that, that always makes me a little bit crazy when people talk about things like that. Only because you're wasting people's time, money, and sometimes hope by using something that doesn't actually help them. 

[00:46:31] Christa Biegler, RD: All right. Let's talk about good advice for ADHD. 

[00:46:33] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: So let's begin with the obvious good advice that everyone should always do, and we all know it, but it's hard: sleep, diet, exercise, right?

[00:46:41] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Just the fundamentals, right? Get enough sleep, exercise regularly, generally eat a healthy diet. You don't have to be a vegan triathlete, just doing the best you can on the basics of taking care of yourself. Now, the hard part is, besides, again, we all know we should, and we all know that french fries are delicious, and we all know that our phones are really interesting, and I'm really busy so I can't go to the gym today, right?

[00:47:06] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: The universal struggles of doing- ... good habits. But especially if your life is less manageable because of ADHD or otherwise, it's that much harder to do those good habits in a consistent kind of a way. And when you run out of time or you ran- run out of willpower, the first thing you steal from is those good, habits of sleep, diet, and exercise.

[00:47:33] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: So I don't wanna make it sound like you just have to decide to do it and therefore it shall be, but rather it's something to continually strive for, right? And to really remind yourself, "I'm doing this because today I will have a better day if I do." Yeah. And especially when you talk about diet culture and especially when you talk about exercise, the least convincing reason to get someone to eat healthier and go work out is that they're gonna get into better shape, because it takes a really long time and it's far from guaranteed to happen, right?

[00:48:07] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: That's bad motivation for all people. It's especially bad motivation for people with ADHD who don't feel the future as much. The much better motivation is right now today you will feel better, right? You'll perform better. You'll feel better. You'll feel good about yourself for taking care of yourself and prioritizing that.

[00:48:28] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: That is the sales pitch to do these good habits. 

[00:48:32] Christa Biegler, RD: One thing I do when I open social media is when someone pulls some great research tidbit about exercise to remind me. I tend to be one of those people... it's nice to know how we're all motivated, and I tend to be motivated- yeah I'm a questioner.

[00:48:46] Christa Biegler, RD: So it's like if I can see some fun research about exercise being as effective as a medication for something, I'm like, "Okay." 

[00:48:53] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Sure. "

[00:48:54] Christa Biegler, RD: Yes, let me get back to all-" Yeah ... "of my things around that." Yeah. So I always appreciate when someone just slaps me in the face with my, with something supportive of what I already want to be doing- yeah

[00:49:06] Christa Biegler, RD: anyway overall. Yeah 

[00:49:07] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: but that's good to know, right? That like for you, like that is a really good motivator, so like that is really helpful to know. And what's gonna motivate someone else might be a little bit different. Yeah. So so yeah, fine. You just gotta figure out what's gonna do it for you.

[00:49:19] Christa Biegler, RD: I think that is, life is an experiment, and so awareness is always our very first best thing. It's oh, how do I seem to get the best focused, deep work done? Is there different times of month where I do better with deep focused work? Yeah. All of those good questio- I think good answers come post good questions for ourselves- Yes

[00:49:37] Christa Biegler, RD: quite often. 

[00:49:38] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: I love that. 

[00:49:39] Christa Biegler, RD: All right. So if you could leave people with one thing, what would you wanna leave them with here today around this top- this really large topic? We did cover a lot, didn't we? We kinda went all- We did ... we sorta went all over the place lightly which is what happens when you've got five books on ADHD.

[00:49:58] Christa Biegler, RD: I know. I didn't have a specific thing I wanted to zoom in on, so it's let's just cover all of it, fly by. So- Yeah ... what would you wanna maybe leave people with, and then where can people find you online? 

[00:50:07] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: So I think what I would say is, if you think you or someone you care about might have ADHD, the- my line is take it seriously, but don't take it personally.

[00:50:21] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Take it seriously means do something about it, right? If it's actually impacting your life, if it's impacting your or this other person's ability to kinda show up the way that you would like, to do well in the places you wanna do well, to have the extra bandwidth and mental energy to take care of yourself or to show up for, I don't know, important social events or in other ways, then take a look at it and do what you need to do to get on top of it.

[00:50:50] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Because otherwise, it will manage you, right? And your life becomes smaller and harder as a result. Now, don't take it personally, meaning there's nothing wrong with having ADHD. Don't feel bad about it. Don't get into guilt things. Don't whatever. Just this is important. I'm gonna do something about it.

[00:51:06] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: I deserve something better. You deserve something better, whatever it is, right? So that would be my big advice. In terms of where to find me, best place is, my website is https://www.drarituckman.com/, or you can also find me on Instagram. I'm doing some fun stuff there @arituchmanpsyd. So those are the two places.

[00:51:28] Christa Biegler, RD: Perfect. This comes out in October for ADHD Month, and I think you wanted to mention- ... that there's a conference coming up in December as well, right? 

[00:51:35] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: I did. So the big annual ADHD conference, we're gonna be in Baltimore this year, December 3rd to the 5th, and it's just an awesome gathering, a bunch of really cool people.

[00:51:47] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Everything from folks who provide services to folks with ADHD, so like therapists, coaches, prescribers, educators, advocates, organizers, as well as also kind of those who themselves have ADHD or a family member or a loved one or... It's just a really awesome thing. Great presentations, cool networking events, peer support groups.

[00:52:09] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: We got a talent show on Friday night, a closing dance party on Saturday night. What part, what conference have you ever gone to that has those two things in it? So check out theadhdconference.org, and you can get all the information there. 

[00:52:21] Christa Biegler, RD: Cool. Thanks so much for coming on today. 

[00:52:24] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: Hey, thank you.

[00:52:24] Ari Tuckman, PsyD, MBA: This was great. I loved all the great questions and everywhere it took us.

[00:52:31] Christa Biegler, RD: Thanks for listening to this week's show. For all the links mentioned in this episode, from submitting your questions and comments to picking up The Cortisol Reset or Finally Focused: Mental Clarity on Demand, you can find all of those links in the show notes below this episode. See you next week!