Holistic Pediatric Dentistry, airway dysfunction and oral microbiome with Dr. Staci Whitman

This week on The Less Stressed Life Podcast, I am excited to be joined by Dr. Staci Whitman who is a Functional Kids’ Dentist in North Portland, Oregon. In this episode, Dr. Staci tells us about how she became interested in functional dentistry, the oral & gut microbiome relationship, airway and sleep health, and tongue and lip ties. 

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Can cavities and mold be connected?
• It's estimated that up to 80% of kids have some sort of sleep disorder or breathing dysfunction
• How does mouth breathing affect the teeth?
• What does your saliva say about your oral health?
• 2 different tests Dr. Staci uses: Bristle or Microbiome
• Oral health in relation to gut health
• The effect of different toothpastes on the microbiome
• What is hydroxyapatite?
• Airway dentistry
• Should kids mouth tape?
• The evolution of the human jaw
• The importance of chewing our food

---

---

ABOUT GUEST:
Doctor Staci Whitman is a Functional Kids’ Dentist in North Portland, Oregon. She is the founder of NoPo Kids Dentistry where she takes a whole-body, holistic, and functional approach with her patients. Her dentistry/practice is grounded by science and powered by love.
Doctor Staci attended Tufts University School of Dental Medicine and worked as a general dentist for 2 years before earning a certificate in pediatric dentistry from Oregon Health & Science University (OHSU). She has always been passionate about children’s sleep and airway health, focusing her research in residency on how to improve airway assessments and diagnostic tools in the pediatric population.
Doctor Staci is an Internationally Certified Health and Wellness Coach from the Institute of Integrative Nutrition and is currently attending the American College of Integrative Dentistry and Medicine and the Institute of Functional Medicine, with expected certification dates in 2022. She dreams of a world without cavities and believes in motivating families to join her as a team, keeping their children healthy and thriving with small, manageable daily changes.

WHERE TO FIND:
Website: https://www.doctorstaci.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doctor_staci/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doctorstaci
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@doctor_staci

WHERE TO FIND CHRISTA:
Website: https://www.christabiegler.com/
Instagram: @anti.inflammatory.nutritionist
Podcast Instagram: @lessstressedlife
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lessstressedlife
Leave a review, submit a questions for the podcast or take one of my quizzes here: https://www.christabiegler.com/links

---

---

TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Dr. Staci Whitman: Everything we put in the mouth, it is shifting and changing our oral microbiome, whether it's food, whether it's a filling, whether it's a retainer for your orthodontics and whether it's toothpaste. And just like we're starting to be more mindful with our skin products and our cosmetics and our shampoo and conditioner, we really need to be very mindful about our oral healthcare products.

[00:00:22] Christa: Stress is the inflammation that robs us of life, energy, and happiness. Our typical solutions for gut health and hormone balance have let a lot of us down. We're over medicated and underserved. At The Less Stressed Life, we're a community of health savvy women exploring solutions outside of our traditional Western medicine toolbox and training to raise the bar and change our stories.

[00:00:49] Christa: Each week, our hope is that you leave our sessions inspired to learn, grow, and share these stories to raise the bar in your life and home. 

[00:01:08] Christa: All right. Today on the less stress life, I have Dr. Stacey Whitman, who's a functional kids dentist in North Portland, Oregon. She's the founder of NoPo Kids where she takes a whole body holistic and functional approach with her parents. Her dentistry and practice is grounded by science empowered by love.

[00:01:25] Christa: And she dreams of a world without cavities and believes in motivating families to join her as a team, keeping their children healthy and thriving with small manageable daily changes, which is. What a heartwarming bio to start with. And there's a whole lot more we'll throw in the show notes, but thanks so much for coming on the show today.

[00:01:40] Christa: Dr. Stacy. 

[00:01:41] Dr. Staci Whitman: Thank you. It's a pleasure. Excited to chat teeth. 

[00:01:45] Christa: Perfect. So I had Dr. Blodgett on. He warmly recommended Dr. Stacey Whitman. I think I was asking him some client questions actually. 

[00:01:52] Dr. Staci Whitman: Oh, cool. Yeah. Kelly's a really good friend. 

[00:01:55] Christa: Yeah, so on that note, I'm going to jump, just jump right in.

[00:01:58] Christa: So I'm going to make this maybe a 3 prong question. Let me tell you the story and then we'll jump into this and you can go wherever you want with it. So this client was experiencing a mold situation in the home and very health conscious, health oriented family.

[00:02:13] Christa: Okay. Using all the things and dealing with what she would have considered doesn't make sense cavity situations. And so she had some questions around good cavities and mold be connected, especially in children. And so that's, a question, but maybe if you want to break it even further into what are some really unexpected root causes of dental things that happen in normally healthy families.

[00:02:40] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah, great question. Yeah. So I definitely think the brush floss and avoid sugar recommendations are pretty antiquated. I mean, yes, they're important, but obviously there are so many families doing all of those things and cavities are still the number one chronic disease in children globally, actually in adults too.

[00:03:01] Dr. Staci Whitman: So obviously we're missing something. And this is where functional dentistry steps in is sort of looking deeper into the root cause of these issues. So the first thing I think of is mouth breathing and that could, coincide with mold. Certainly, especially if you have, mold in your sinuses, you're chronically inflamed and chronically congested and you start mouth breathing.

[00:03:23] Dr. Staci Whitman: That is a top reason for cavities, especially in kids that I think a lot of people are overlooking. And mouth breathing airway issues is also a silent epidemic in Children. They estimate up to 80 percent of kids have some sort of sleep disorder, breathing or breathing dysfunction. And so why does mouth breathing affect the teeth?

[00:03:41] Dr. Staci Whitman: It's because when we breathe through our mouth, our saliva Dissipate. So we get dry mouth or Xerostomia, and the pH drops. Most pathogenic anaerobic bacteria. They love a low pH, they love acid and an acidic environment, and so a dry mouth and acidic mouth, it just sets us up for imbalances in our oral microbiome, particularly those pathogenic microbes.

[00:04:06] Dr. Staci Whitman: So yeah, for sure. I haven't read a lot of studies or science on the mold. Tooth decay connection. I think that's just because it hasn't happened or occurred yet, but I absolutely think we are underestimating the effects of mycotoxins in our bodies and what that's doing systemically. 

[00:04:24] Christa: Well, I mean, the mold could cause the sinus congestion, which makes them mouth breathing, right?

[00:04:29] Christa: Or it might just be some other, it's just one reason. What's the cause of the mouth breathing, I guess, 

[00:04:34] Christa: is the 100%.

[00:04:36] Dr. Staci Whitman: And then also, you know, Candida. And yeast, our top cavity causer as well, and so we're just generally focused on bacteria, but we know fungus is a huge contributor to oral dysbiosis and oral disease too, and in my practice, and many other biological and functional dental practices, we're starting to do oral microbiome testing, and so candida and fungus tests.

[00:04:59] Dr. Staci Whitman: Thank you. even H. pylori. These agents that we normally wouldn't think of associated with oral disease are showing up on people's oral microbiome tests. And so that it allows us to approach things differently rather than just saying, come in for a cleaning and floss more, which is really gaslighting patients, I think, is

[00:05:20] Dr. Staci Whitman: for these families that are just trying so hard and they're eating clean and they just feel like they're doing everything right. Their kids keep getting cavities. I think it just adds another layer of information that's very important. 

[00:05:30] Christa: Yeah, lots to get into here. Let's kind of go big picture and then let's talk about the mouth breathing and airway state stuff.

[00:05:39] Christa: And then let me come back to bacteria and fungus and H. pylori and testing because this is something I work on in practice and I could only imagine, I guess I'm going to start there because that's where my question is going first and I feel like airway is going to get us off on a whole different tangent.

[00:05:56] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah. 

[00:05:56] Christa: So the tricky part about this probably as a dentist is. Maybe, maybe not, it's like, it's just 1 of those things of no more do better, right? Or no better do better situation. And so love to hear more about the oral microbiome testing that you're doing the experience. 

[00:06:12] Christa: How that's going.

[00:06:13] Christa: And then what do you do with these results? Because are you then trying to manage. An oral, which is really a whole gut protocol, or are you referring out? Or do you have someone in your practice trying to work on it? Because I can only imagine and I, love dental because I feel like anything you're seeing is something like, I think the mouth is obviously this whole window to the body.

[00:06:33] Christa: It's like, if you're seeing this in the mouth, then it must be a big problem inside the body. 

[00:06:37] Dr. Staci Whitman: 100%. I mean, and I think people are starting to really grasp that that we are fortunate that we can see inside the mouth. We can't see inside our gut. We can't see inside some internal organs, but it really is a snapshot into the health of the patient.

[00:06:53] Dr. Staci Whitman: You know, do they have gum disease, periodontal disease, halitosis you can see nutritional deficiencies in the mouth. So it's really much beyond the teeth And that is where functional dentistry comes in as well I mean, I think there's two technicians people that need to fix teeth will always need that component of dentistry But we also need tooth physicians that can help connect dots refer out as needed and really help Get our patients to optimal health.

[00:07:20] Dr. Staci Whitman: So to answer your question, I currently am using bristle or a microbiome test, and we can put that in the show notes. like bristle the best right now. It is direct to consumer, but they are the only or microbiome test out there now that's using shotgun metagenomics, which means basically they're looking at the whole range of potential bacteria.

[00:07:40] Dr. Staci Whitman: And now we know there's potentially up to 800 different species in the mouth. So traditional oral microbiome testing maybe is just testing for the top 15 really virulent pathogenic bacteria, but not the whole gamut. And so it's very easy. It's a spit test and they have a very beautiful interface a website that gives you your results and recommendations.

[00:08:02] Dr. Staci Whitman: You can sign up for online one on one coaching with a functional hygienist, which is really wonderful. What do I do with the results? Yes, I look at them, I interpret them. Now granted, I work in pediatrics, so it's not, I don't see as wild of results as I might with periodontal disease. But if I do see something like candida or yeast pop up there or H.

[00:08:25] Dr. Staci Whitman: pylori it also will test for just gut dysbiosis as well. Then I do work with a naturopathic physician in my area or functional medicine doctor. I am functional medicine certified through IFM and I'm getting my functional diagnostic certification. So I do hope at some point to have some sort of micro practice where I can be doing the gut mapping myself and really helping the child in it's in their entirety and what they need.

[00:08:53] Dr. Staci Whitman: But right now we do refer out. So it's, you know, I take care of the things in the mouth and the other doctors take care of the gut, but we have to be working together. And this is where I think a lot is lost is, you know, you might go to a naturopath or a functional medicine provider with gut dysbiosis, intestinal permeability, all of these issues, SIBO.

[00:09:13] Dr. Staci Whitman: And you make progress through protocols and treatments, but is anyone looking at your mouth? And they're really simpatico. We swallow 2, 000 times a day, so we are inoculating our guts with bacteria that shouldn't be there especially if you have periodontal disease. We're still doing research on how they communicate, what bacteria are actually making it through.

[00:09:38] Dr. Staci Whitman: the stomach acid into the intestines. How are they affecting things? But we know you cannot have proper oral health without proper gut health and vice versa. It's really bi directional. There's the oral gut access. And so working together as a team is, really paramount, including with kids. 

[00:09:57] Christa: Yeah.

[00:09:57] Christa: Once you're working with kids, you really have two clients or three as you have their parents and the child and all the emotions related to that. So it's not a problem. And sometimes, I mean, the thing with kids is that they can be, like you said, more straightforward sometimes than an adult can, who's had a longer history of times.

[00:10:17] Christa: But the complex part for me, cause I work on these things with kids, it's like, it's like lowest effective dose. There's the right answer because they're all different weights and sizes and like, what are they going to tolerate compliance? There's the magic one, you know, that's a big one. Yeah. It just makes it more interesting, just more exciting.

[00:10:35] Dr. Staci Whitman: Keeps it spicy. 

[00:10:36] Christa: Yeah, exactly. It's like less boring. 

[00:10:39] Dr. Staci Whitman: It's so rewarding because, you know, and so many of these children too, I mean, we're seeing more pans and pandas and just more chronic illness and sometimes cleaning up. the mouth or just having a dental provider look. and be able to put pieces together.

[00:10:56] Dr. Staci Whitman: It can really help, especially with that airway component, or are we seeing zinc deficiency and B vitamin deficiencies and vitamin C deficiency in the mouth, which we can see if you know, to look for it and then working more collaboratively and that's the integrative approach. And so that's really the movement with functional dentistry is that we're really trying to educate fellow colleagues.

[00:11:18] Dr. Staci Whitman: To look beyond the tooth and to work with other providers because that's truly how we're going to get our patients healthy. 

[00:11:24] Christa: Yeah. 

[00:11:24] Christa: Super fun. Okay. So you made me think of some things when we were talking about what's going on in the mouth and I got to thinking about, is it Chinese tongue mapping or like, do you look at the tongue?

[00:11:35] Christa: Anything you want to say about that? 

[00:11:38] Dr. Staci Whitman: I think it's really cool. It's a whole separate conversation. Again, I don't use it a lot with kids, but it can be used a lot in the adult population. I think at least to give us guidance into what might be happening. Deeper, it just kind of opens our eyes to places to explore at a different level.

[00:11:57] Dr. Staci Whitman: I will say, you know, looking at the tongue again, you can see nutritional deficiencies on geographic tongue is a big 1 in the pediatric population that gets poo pooed a lot or brush off by other. Providers as, oh, it's benign, it's fine. But geographic tongue can be associated with Crohn's or celiac or gluten intolerance.

[00:12:20] Dr. Staci Whitman: Other nutritional deficiencies too. So if you do have geographic tongue, that's when you have bald spots that kind of migrate and move around the tongue. You know, it's one tube, it's all the same. And so if there are anomalies in the mouth, if you're getting a lot of oral ulcerations They're very likely are things happening within as well, and they just haven't become symptomatic yet.

[00:12:42] Dr. Staci Whitman: And so it's nice to stay ahead of these things that are just smoldering rather than full blown fires. And so a lot of these kids will send to the other providers we work with. They'll do some gut testing, gut mapping, and sure enough, they have, you know, fill in the blank, they have Crohn's, they have celiac, they have nutritional deficiencies that would have been ignored because in school we're taught, oh, this is benign, no harm, no foul, send the patient out the door.

[00:13:09] Christa: And if I may, I would also say fungal overgrowth and bacterial overgrowth with geographic tongue also. Wouldn't you agree? And maybe oral ulcerations similar along with deficiencies it seems 

[00:13:21] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah. And oral ulcerations a lot, we see a lot of celiac too, that has not been diagnosed or just gluten.

[00:13:27] Dr. Staci Whitman: I mean, I think a lot of people think those come with a lot of GI distress, but really we see a lot of skin issues a lot of the kids have on eczema or psoriasis or oral alterations 

[00:13:40] Christa: or neuro stuff, right? Mood changes. A lot of it can be mood. Not always got unfortunately. Okay. 

[00:13:47] Christa: Since we started with cavities, a little out of order, but let's talk about these toothpaste. We were talking offline. So, the kind of sort of holistic approach to cavity prevention, I feel is hydroxyapatite currently. What would you say about that? 

[00:14:01] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah, I agree, especially nano hydroxyapatite is what the literature is showing is most effective and biomimetic, you know, our enamel and dentin is comprised primarily of hydroxyapatite, which is essentially calcium and phosphorus.

[00:14:15] Dr. Staci Whitman: Our enamel is 90, 95 percent hydroxyapatite. Our bones are 60%. So, as opposed to using fluoride, which has a slew of concerns, of course, we're using something more biometric. There are some concerns with nanoparticles, but has been blown out of proportion a bit. I think, especially in the United States, social media craze, I will say the SCCS in Europe.

[00:14:39] Dr. Staci Whitman: They've done multiple years of studies on nanoparticles and hydroxyapatite, and what it comes down to is like anything, the source, the size, the shape, a lot of toothpaste, unfortunately, are sourcing their hydroxyapatite from not so great manufacturing facilities like in China. And so there needs to be more transparency in the market.

[00:15:00] Dr. Staci Whitman: That being said, I'm a big advocate for hydroxyapatite, both nano and micro. But the other thing with toothpaste, I think. It's still not perfected, is not including surfactants and emulsifiers and excessive essential oils and additives that just aren't necessary and that could be negatively influencing the oral microbiome.

[00:15:23] Dr. Staci Whitman: I think we're underestimating, you know, everything we put in the mouth, it is shifting and changing our oral microbiome, whether it's food, whether it's a filling, whether it's a retainer for your orthodontics, and whether it's toothpaste. And we just, just like we're starting to be more mindful with our skin products and our cosmetics and our you know, shampoo and conditioner, we really need to be very mindful about our oral healthcare products.

[00:15:48] Dr. Staci Whitman: Because we are learning more and more that the oral microbiome is very influential over the entire system, multiple organ systems, you know, gut, our gut microbiome, et cetera, as we talked about. So less is more, I think, and starting to read ingredients is really, really important for the consumer.

[00:16:06] Christa: Okay. 

[00:16:07] Christa: So a couple of questions. Let's talk about antimicrobial cell toothpaste, and then maybe a little tangent nitric oxide and then since we're already on toothpaste, we're going to talk about -if you were going to create a toothpaste, what would go into it? But 1st, let's talk about antimicrobial toothpaste, short term, long term use.

[00:16:25] Christa: I mean, when people have quote coded tongue, et cetera, I found this to be a helpful short term situation. 

[00:16:31] Dr. Staci Whitman: I agree. 

[00:16:32] Christa: So I've used this you know, it's been very nice. Like, your teeth are very clean when you use certain ones of these. I have found that's how I feel about it. This is how my, the lady who cleans my teeth also feels about this.

[00:16:43] Christa: However, I've had some nitric oxide experts on talking about this and saying, do not ever use antimicrobials in the mouth because of nitric oxide production stuff. Can you speak to 

[00:16:53] Christa: this a little bit? 

[00:16:54] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah, so it's nuance and we don't fully understand the oral microbiome. I mean, truly the research is happening as we're recording this.

[00:17:03] Dr. Staci Whitman: It's really a hot topic right now, but yes, I mean, there are very important. Microbes in the mouth that influence nitric oxide production, and especially if you're using astringent, you know, more traditional mouthwashes or really harsh toothpaste that can wipe out these bacteria. And there are studies showing increased blood pressure and cardiovascular concerns.

[00:17:28] Dr. Staci Whitman: Because of nitric oxides benefits to the cardiovascular system. So that's concerning, you know, people who are swishing with Listerine every day and might have, you know, fill in the blank, AFib or high blood pressure. I mean, we really need to be looking back to the oral microbes. That being said, I do think there are certain brands That I am okay with for a short period of time antimicrobial toothpaste, you know, obviously the more natural ones.

[00:17:55] Dr. Staci Whitman: I also think like nano silver rinses can be very beneficial, but I like those short term, 

[00:18:00] Christa: right? 

[00:18:00] Dr. Staci Whitman: You can kind of overdo a lot, but until the patient finds health and so that could be 2 months. It could be 3 months. You know, we're also bio individual. But I don't think that's something for long term use because you want to shift the microbiome to something of more commensal balance.

[00:18:17] Dr. Staci Whitman: And once you get there, then you're in a maintenance and you don't need those strong agents anymore. 

[00:18:22] Christa: So I want to underline a couple of things you said that I think are important. As this client is pursuing health, that's I mean, for me, that's when I'm talking to them. Right?

[00:18:31] Christa: So, if I bring in antimicrobial toothpaste to help support this getting cleaned up, because it's usually not amazing for a while and then switch over to something else. I think also, like you said, the products I'm using are, I think, high quality, good quality when we're using herbs. It's a little different than if we're like.

[00:18:49] Christa: Using alcohol to swish, I would say and I think as you said, eloquently, is that humans have a tendency to do a little and then do a lot of a little thing. Right. But you did put a nice timeline on it. It's like 2 to 3 months is actually. I think also super appropriate as you're pursuing health.

[00:19:05] Christa: Right. And then it's like, well, you should be in a good, decent place at that point where it's like, if not, there's probably something missing here and or I bet there's room to kind of cycle something in every once in a while. If it feels like it's warranted because life. 

[00:19:20] Christa: Right, right. 

[00:19:21] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah, we fall out of our routines and our habits and, 

[00:19:23] Christa: you know, birthday cake.

[00:19:25] Christa: It's fine. 

[00:19:25] Dr. Staci Whitman: Totally. Which is you should, I 

[00:19:29] Dr. Staci Whitman: mean, 

[00:19:29] Christa: might be a nice time to use some of this other toothpaste. 

[00:19:31] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah, I think you word it perfectly well. And I think the biggest concern are truly for me is the mouthwash industry. That's where I think we've been marketed to incorrectly.

[00:19:44] Dr. Staci Whitman: I'm not a huge fan of many mouthwashes at all, to be honest. But depending on what your client's needs or your patient's needs are, and this is where oral microbiome testing can come in. Sometimes we need even more than an antimicrobial toothpaste, you know, this is why working with a dental provider.

[00:20:01] Dr. Staci Whitman: who might be knowledgeable in this arena can be important to, you know, as a medical provider, because there are spirochetes. I mean, there are pathogens in the mouth that may actually need antibiotics especially if we're dealing with periodontal disease. So it just all depends on the needs of the patient.

[00:20:17] Dr. Staci Whitman: You know, are we doing with fungus? Are we dealing with really virulent

[00:20:26] Dr. Staci Whitman: Is it a gut health issue? Is it mouth breathing? Is it what we're eating and snacking frequency? And what are we drinking? And you know, all of that does matter. You'll notice I don't mention hygiene a whole lot. Now dental hygiene is important, but I put it pretty far down on the list. I think some of these Other things are much more important for our patient's health. we've just been so focused on the whole brush and floss mantra for so long. I really think we're doing a disservice to our patients. 

[00:20:55] Christa: I remember Dr. Blodgett said something that just I loved, which was your saliva bathes your teeth and your saliva is made of what you're drinking all day.

[00:21:05] Christa: Right? So just, you know, just I like to oversimplify things. It's like, oh, that's a good thing 

[00:21:10] Christa: to think about. That's all. 

[00:21:11] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah. And hydration. I mean, we know hydration is so important for our entire body, but we don't really think about our saliva. But I can tell looking at a patient and looking at their saliva, if they're quote unquote healthy.

[00:21:24] Dr. Staci Whitman: I mean, if it's, if it's thick and mucousy and ropey versus, you know, viscous and fluid, that's a huge difference. And that means the integrity of that saliva will be different. And our saliva really is. The elixir of our mouth. I mean, it's protecting our teeth. This is where ionic change happens.

[00:21:42] Dr. Staci Whitman: There's immune cells and immune response in the saliva enzymes as part of the digestive process. So you cannot underestimate the importance of hydration. And so that is just such an easy thing. We say it time and time again for no matter what we're focused on on our health journey. But just adding a little more water every day and making sure that you're absorbing it appropriately

[00:22:06] Christa: with minerals.

[00:22:07] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah. 

[00:22:09] Christa: Okay. So hypothetically, if you were going to be creating a toothpaste, let's pretend you were annoyed by the toothpaste industry and you were going to create a toothpaste. How would you instruct that? 

[00:22:18] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah. I don't think we're focusing enough on the microbiome. So we need prebiotics. We need targeted probiotics.

[00:22:26] Dr. Staci Whitman: I would take out all the junk, all the surfactants and emulsifiers, you know, the sodium lauryl sulfate, which is the foaming agent. You don't want burn and you don't want foam. And I get frustrated because even some of the super quote unquote clean toothpaste. The mint they burn. Now we've been conditioned to think that may that means my mouth is clean.

[00:22:50] Dr. Staci Whitman: If it burns and tingles after my mouth is clean. I argue the opposite. You are annihilating, wiping out, you know, essential oils in these flavorings, they're very antimicrobial and they're not specific. So they are really altering the train and wiping out your healthy bacteria. Your toothpaste should not burn and that can be a mindset shift and it can take deconditioning.

[00:23:16] Dr. Staci Whitman: It's just like when you switch deodorant, that took a transition period. When you switch your shampoo or maybe you wash your hair less, that was a transition period. And so I'd argue we need a big transition period with what we think is a successful toothpaste and not. So, you know, a lot of the toothpaste I see out there, they have SLS derivatives.

[00:23:37] Dr. Staci Whitman: They say they're coconut based. They're still not doing great things. They're still acting as foaming agents, so they're better, but I still argue they're unnecessary. Glycerin gets spoken about a lot is inhibiting remineralization. I will tell you, I've spent, it seems like years now trying to find.

[00:23:56] Dr. Staci Whitman: The proper research showing that this is happening. I disagree that they're finding showing that glycerin inhibits remineralization. But that being said, I am concerned with what it might be doing to the microbes in the community of bacteria. So I don't think it's necessary. It's just less is more.

[00:24:13] Dr. Staci Whitman: And of course, I love nano hydroxyapatite and I, I think really a mix of micro and nano is what the research is showing is best for efficacy. And that combination it's outperforming fluoride, which is wonderful because unless you're eating strict, strict paleo, which I'm not advocating for that.

[00:24:32] Dr. Staci Whitman: I'm just saying if you're eating any type of fermentable carbohydrate or mouth breathing, you are cavity prone. I mean, you're setting yourself for the potential for cavity. So I do think you need some sort of remineralizing agent especially in our kids. And again, cavities are rampant. I can't keep up at my office with how many children are coming in.

[00:24:52] Dr. Staci Whitman: And these are well intentioned families doing everything correctly. And their kids are still suffering from this. What should be preventable disease? The other thing I'm seeing as a silent epidemic that I think needs more attention is under mineralized enamel and teeth or hypo plastic teeth. So, these poor babies, their teeth are erupting and they're already set up for failure because the teeth are just deficient in minerals.

[00:25:20] Dr. Staci Whitman: And you can see them, they'll be chalky, or white, or mottled, and they will sometimes just crumble, and they dissolve. And this is when you hear women being told it's their breastfeeding, stop breastfeeding, your breastfeeding is causing your kid's cavities. But really the root cause issue, I believe, is the integrity of the child's teeth.

[00:25:42] Dr. Staci Whitman: And so going upstream, what are the reasons for that? Well, we don't fully know. Again, it's going to be bio individual, but I argue it's very likely mineral deficiencies that we all are suffering from because our soil is so depleted, particularly magnesium. We're vitamin D deficient. hugely important for dental development.

[00:26:02] Dr. Staci Whitman: But also there are studies that are showing microplastics are affecting a meal of Genesis and disrupting the hormone process of enamel formation. And so that can feel overwhelming because microplastics are every there. What are we supposed to do? But I think on a bigger level, you know, this is where sustainability really comes in and we need to be so mindful about plastics in our environment.

[00:26:27] Dr. Staci Whitman: They're affecting us in ways that think we don't even fully understand yet. And even that includes our children's teeth. 

[00:26:36] Christa: So what are we gonna put in the best toothpaste? We talked about some of the things that are not good. 

[00:26:42] Dr. Staci Whitman: We're gonna put nano hydroxyapatite and micro hydroxyapatite and pre and probiotics.

[00:26:48] Dr. Staci Whitman: I like a little bentonite clay if long as it's from the appropriate source. Just like the nano hydroxy appetite. And, you know, some clean flavoring some xylitol. So xylitol is one of the only sweeteners now that has benefits to the oral microbiome and not the opposite, including gut health effects.

[00:27:10] Dr. Staci Whitman: So that's kind of it. I mean, keep it. Real simple there shouldn't be a lot of ingredients in your toothpaste. 

[00:27:16] Christa: Cool. We'll circle back to that later. Okay. So we talked about toothpaste. We talked about microbes. I think it's time to go back to where this started, which was mouth breathing and airway stuff.

[00:27:28] Christa: So. Hmm. Let's talk about airway stuff and sleep health. Now, since we were talking about mouth breathing, let's just get this elephant out of the room. Do you recommend mouth taping and kids? I feel like this could go both ways. Like, what do you, 

[00:27:41] Dr. Staci Whitman: I do if they've been cleared by the appropriate individuals.

[00:27:46] Dr. Staci Whitman: So that generally means working with an airway focused or trained dentist, but also probably being screened by ear nose and throat doctor. Certainly if they have enlarged adenoids or tonsils. or some true obstruction, no, we don't want to be taping. But if it's a myofunctional issue, if it's a habit, if it's a low tone issue, if it's an orthodontic issue that is going to take many months to correct, but you're, you know, we're trying to get a child breathing appropriately in the meantime, then yes, I think If the family is open to it and the child understands the reasons, I'm a big advocate for sleep tape or mouth tape.

[00:28:25] Christa: So airway dentistry is kind of a big topic. I feel like it's really having a heyday right now online, very popular, but also kind of maybe, you know, if you're not really even sure what the heck this is, it's kind of a lot. So can we actually, yeah, I was trying to avoid the word, but that's kind of how I feel about it.

[00:28:42] Christa: Cause it's like, What is the real problem? Is there a problem? Is this train, you know I used to walk around my. Mouth open a lot and be a mouth breather, and then I changed. So, I don't know, you know, it's like, is there a functional structural issue or is there something else going on? So can we try to describe airway dentistry in a nutshell? I'm guessing there's some flavors here because it's probably like. Can you just call yourself an airway dentist? Like, what would someone be credentialed in if they were an airway dentist? Let's try to nugget that and then we can talk about how people might assess it.

[00:29:14] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, yeah, you can call yourself anything you want right now. You can be a holistic dentist. You can be a functional dentist. You can be an airway dentist. There's no board certification programs for any of these right now, per se. I'm working on that, by the way, at least the functional dental part.

[00:29:34] Dr. Staci Whitman: I mean, Ideally, your airway trained or focused dentist would have additional training. So you're going to see, are they a member of different airway and sleep medicine groups? Have they had training? Breathe Institute in Los Angeles with Dr. Soroush Jaggi, who's an otolaryngologist and ENT is a very popular training program that a lot of people go through.

[00:29:57] Dr. Staci Whitman: You have to look at their website. I think see what are they involved in? What procedures are they offering? Are they doing frenectomies? Do they mention myofunctional therapy? Do they talk about craniosacral therapy and chiropractic and body work because it's all integrated, and it's all connected.

[00:30:14] Dr. Staci Whitman: But I mean, yeah, anyone could call themselves an airway dentist. So I would say just dig a little bit, but usually their website will be pretty clear to you, I think. And I'm also a big advocate for patients. If it doesn't feel right, get a 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinion is needed. 

[00:30:30] Christa: I was going to say trying to crack open airway dentistry.

[00:30:33] Christa: Why would someone pursue airway dentistry? 

[00:30:36] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah, I mean, so we are not taught anything about airway assessment in dental school, so that's an institutional issue, and that includes orthodontists, I mean, any specialty, maybe just brushing the surface, but I personally pursued more education and training because of something that happened with my daughter.

[00:30:58] Dr. Staci Whitman: She had major airway issues. She had a posterior tongue tie. We had a terrible time breastfeeding. She slept horribly as an infant and young child. She had colic. She had reflux. She was off her growth curve. Then we noticed behavioral issues because a lot of these chronic mouth breathing, airway issues can manifest as almost like ADHD symptoms and signs.

[00:31:21] Dr. Staci Whitman: So that's what sent me down my path and most dentists who've pursued additional training have something similar within their families because this is so common. So, I think, you know, if you're just going to a normal dentist, they're very unlikely to do an airway screening. And so there's additional intake forms.

[00:31:38] Dr. Staci Whitman: There's additional measurements that we do. There's additional things that we look for in our exam. So we're not just looking at teeth. We're looking at structure, jaw relationship you know, we're looking up the nose. Is there deviated septum? Does a patient seem in balance skeletal muscularly?

[00:31:56] Dr. Staci Whitman: What is their bite like, their occlusion? What is the tone of their muscles in their mouth and their tongue looking like? What is their tongue position and posture? So there's a whole checklist that we go through. And then what will happen based on the patient or child's needs is we will guide the patient.

[00:32:15] Dr. Staci Whitman: So we work sort of as a quarterback to help guide them. In a hopefully non overwhelming way to say, okay, I do think your child. Has enlarged adenoids. I can hear them breathing across the room. I suggest that you work with maybe this naturopathic provider to talk about allergies and mold, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:32:35] Dr. Staci Whitman: But also, it's probably a good idea to go see the ENT. to look at structural issues too, because it can be multifaceted. And that's what's most overwhelming about airway is it's usually not just one thing. It's usually a multitude of things and it usually involves multiple providers. So there's an airway team that needs to work with your family.

[00:32:55] Christa: Yeah, kind of tricky, right? It's kind of tricky to have. It's like doing a home remodeling project. 

[00:33:01] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah, there's many layers. And so knowing where to start is the hardest part. And that's where, you know, hopefully your airway dental team will guide you. And a huge component of this too is orthodontics and having jaws that are too small.

[00:33:17] Dr. Staci Whitman: And that's truly what we're seeing. That's why we feel there is this epidemic is that. Humans, our jaws are getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And you can trace this ancestrally. I mean, you go to the natural history museum in New York, pick up a skull. They have huge wide jaws, huge wide pallets.

[00:33:35] Dr. Staci Whitman: Their wisdom teeth are completely in, and now we don't have that. Our wisdom teeth can't fit. Our teeth are crowded. Our pallets are narrow. And that just, it's a volume issue. We don't have enough space and surface area for our teeth to fit, for our tongue to fit. And that takes up airway space too. And so a lot of things.

[00:33:56] Christa: Why would that happen? 

[00:33:57] Dr. Staci Whitman: So we know, we believe we know, the anthropologists believe they know. So we used to chew four hours a day, ancestrally, 10, 000 years ago. We would chew, chew, chew all day long. And so that force, that act of mastication, it was, especially from a young age, was creating jaw development.

[00:34:15] Dr. Staci Whitman: You know, your tongue is a huge muscle. If it's forcing out and out and out every time with a chew, this skeletal structure will follow that. So form follows function. And muscle is more powerful than bone. So in the battle between muscle and bone, muscle will win. So now we chew four minutes a day.

[00:34:33] Dr. Staci Whitman: So from four hours a day, to four minutes a day because we have mac and cheese and we have chicken nuggets and we have frappuccinos And we're just not chewing and so that we noticed a big shift after the agricultural revolution and then even more so after the industrialized revolution where we started processing and milling and not having to chew essentially.

[00:34:55] Dr. Staci Whitman: So that's the theory. Yeah, 

[00:34:57] Christa: I think chewing is the wealth. I'm sure we both agree. Chewing is the beginning of digestion and it just does not happen and people do not digest. 

[00:35:06] Dr. Staci Whitman: And it sends so many signals to the brain and primes the pump and all of, I mean, it's not just facial development and airway development.

[00:35:13] Dr. Staci Whitman: I mean, from a naturopathic or functional medicine perspective, of course, it's helping with so many things downstream too for digestion. 

[00:35:19] Christa: Right. 

[00:35:20] Christa: Why do we have digestive issues? We are not digesting. 

[00:35:23] Dr. Staci Whitman: Follow our food whole. 

[00:35:25] Christa: Yeah. 

[00:35:25] Dr. Staci Whitman: I mean, even smoothies, you know, we think of smoothies is so healthy, but I've attended courses where, you know, the experts are saying you should chew your smoothie because it's priming the pump.

[00:35:36] Dr. Staci Whitman: It's sending those signals to get your digestive enzymes ready and, all the, hormones that are needed to regulate society and hunger and all those cues. So, yeah. 

[00:35:49] Christa: All right. Let's maybe narrow down airway dentistry from just a moment. The one that's, I think the hot topic, which is tongue and lip ties.

[00:35:58] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah. 

[00:35:59] Christa: How does someone assess if this isn't situation and why is this happening to people at this Maybe greater prevalence, or maybe it's not, or maybe it's awareness. I have no idea. It's a hot topic. 

[00:36:07] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah, that's a hot topic it's for sure controversial even in the people I mentor and admire Because there's not a lot of research behind it because it's really hard to do a randomized control trial On these little babies, but think it's a mix.

[00:36:24] Dr. Staci Whitman: I mean there are some methylation Concerns that maybe that's why we're seeing it more. And is this linked to MTHFR, COMT, gene mutations, et cetera, et cetera that is not solid in the science. That being said, I do think we're just more aware of it. But if you actually look historically, we used to diagnose tongue and lip tie a lot back in the day, and then it took this hiatus.

[00:36:51] Dr. Staci Whitman: And so the counter argument is, It's always been there, but now we're just diagnosing it like we used to again. So, it's just like syndactyly, you know, if your fingers are, are fused together. It's just, it's when that freedom under your tongue or lip is short, it's not flexible, it's tight. It's not allowing for proper tongue mobility or lip mobility.

[00:37:15] Dr. Staci Whitman: I like to focus a little bit more on tongue tie because I think it has more. Impact at least from an airway standpoint. And so, you know, when we're in utero This starts when we're inside our mamas, our tongue should be up at the roof of our mouth, that's called proper tongue resting position, and our tongue is this huge muscle, and it spreads the palate out by sitting up there, by resting, it's spreading the palate, it's creating the midface, and broadening the face, so it's physically tied to the floor of the mouth, it can't lift.

[00:37:52] Dr. Staci Whitman: And so those bones never spread optimally, and the tongue sits low. And if you just play around with your own mouth, put your tongue low behind your lower front teeth, and try to close your lips and breathe through your nose. It's really awkward. The only way that you really mouth breathe is , if your tongue's low, your mouth pops open.

[00:38:12] Dr. Staci Whitman: Like think of Napoleon Dynamite. If your tongue is up high and elevated up to the roof of the mouth, your lips naturally close. Now the problem is, again, form follows function. So the more you mouth breathe, the more you mouth breathe, the more you mouth breathe. And if you're a mouth breather, it actually is going to change the way you grow.

[00:38:29] Dr. Staci Whitman: So you tend to grow a long, narrow, forward growth pattern, and that's not optimal. We want to be growing out wide and not long and narrow because that's again changing the airway complex. So you know, a lot of tongue ties get mess. They do. And there's a lot of controversy about what's happening in hospitals with diagnosis.

[00:38:51] Dr. Staci Whitman: I've attended IBCLC conferences where it was like a safe space and the IBCLCs there that work for hospitals say they, they have gag orders, like they literally cannot talk to a mom about tongue and lip tie. It has to come from the, the physician and then many physicians will poo poo this as well.

[00:39:10] Dr. Staci Whitman: So sometimes you do need to go outside and find either like a private IBCLC or again that airway trained dentist that maybe focuses on infants for, for optimal diagnosis. But I think the big thing is trust your instincts. You know, if you're really struggling with breastfeeding, if, if it's extremely painful, if your baby just doesn't seem right with their colic and their reflux and just feedings are taking so long and everyone's so exhausted and you feel like you're breastfeeding all day long.

[00:39:43] Dr. Staci Whitman: I think you really should seek another opinion and get help because it really can make a big difference. It can really change the experience of the dyad. 

[00:39:53] Christa: I was going to ask where people should start if they feel like they have some concerns about that. Maybe the starting point for education is different than if they're trying to find somebody, potentially, technically.

[00:40:02] Dr. Staci Whitman: I think the best place to start would be an IBCLC, maybe outside of the conventional hospital system. 

[00:40:08] Christa: Perfect. 

[00:40:09] Dr. Staci Whitman: So private practice, probably, 

[00:40:11] Christa: A breastfeeding specialist with a credential. That's what she's saying in case you don't know what IBCLC is. 

[00:40:16] Dr. Staci Whitman: Sorry. Yes, 

[00:40:17] Christa: that's fine. 

[00:40:18] Christa: Yeah, perfect. Okay. I think we covered a lot of great stuff today.

[00:40:22] Christa: We talked about oral gut microbiome and we rounded back to airway health, which impacts sleep health, which impacts I feel everything. 

[00:40:31] Dr. Staci Whitman: Behavior hormones, I mean, so much your gut health, your microbiome, I mean, how we breathe some argue how we breathe is foundational for health. You can be doing all the things, and if you're not breathing optimally you may be suffering from some health issues.

[00:40:50] Dr. Staci Whitman: So, important. 

[00:40:52] Christa: That is I hope we can get that more popular thing. I'm over here trying to see how we can make breath work sexy. I think about this all the time. So, or making optimal breathing. A little more sexy. So let's talk about where can people find you online.

[00:41:05] Dr. Staci Whitman: Yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. So I spent a lot of time on Instagram on. And a bit on YouTube channel so you can look find me doctor underscore Stacey. It's D O C T O R underscore S T A C E I. I have a website, doctorstacey. com spelled out the same way.

[00:41:24] Christa: . So drstacey. com and at dr underscore Stacey with an I thank you so much for coming on today. 

[00:41:31] Dr. Staci Whitman: Thank you. It's a pleasure. 

[00:41:33] Christa: Sharing and reviewing this podcast is the best way to help us succeed with our mission to help integrate the best of East and West and empower you to raise the bar on your health story. Just go to review this podcast. com forward slash less stressed life. That's review this podcast. com forward slash less stressed life.

[00:41:54] Christa: And you'll be taken directly to a page where you can insert your review and hit post.